POI, Magnetspeed, Ladder Tesst

[Davey Boy]

My question is. Would you get the same results i.e. same nodes, with a V3 MS attached as opposed to not attached on a ladder test.

I realize POI may be changed with the MS attached. But would the results pointing out the nodes be the same. I have not tried this yet and won't be able to till the weather warms up.
Anyone try this.

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Dave from cold Alberta

 

[snakepit]

My question is. Would you get the same results i.e. same nodes, with a V3 MS attached as opposed to not attached on a ladder test.

I realize POI may be changed with the MS attached. But would the results pointing out the nodes be the same. I have not tried this yet and won't be able to till the weather warms up.
Anyone try this.

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Dave from cold Alberta

I posted this back in 2015.

I did a comparison at 600 yds with my 6mmBR/1.25"x30" Brux Barrel without and with my MagnetoSpeed installed. The load was 30.5 gr of Varget, Berger 105 Hybrids jumped .025 and CCI 450's. I measured the target groups on my computer using the On Target Precision Calculator Target 2.1 Program.

The 4 shot group without the MagnetoSpeed installed measured 1.346" wide by .540 high.
The 4 shot group with the MagnetoSpeed installed measured 1.390" wide by .506" high.

The group with the MagnetoSpeed installed measured 4.281" down and 1.291" left center to center from the group without the MagnetoSpeed installed.

Again, this was done at 600 yds.

 

[Davey Boy]

So if I understand what your saying, is that the Poi does shift with the MS installed, but the group sizes are virtually the same size, and therefore the nodes would be the same with the MS installed.
So I in essence, should be able to find the nodes on a ladder test, and they should be similar as to the velocity nodes, with the MS installed. Killing two birds with one stone so to speak. I also use On Target TDS. Great program.

 

[Twitchy]

I had pretty similar results with mine. POI will change, but groups are pretty representative of what it will be with or without it.

I did on occasion act as a barrel tuner and I always didi testing with and without it to confirm. I got tired of doing that and bought a LabRadar.

 

[Shane Roya]

My Heavy Palma barrel give good results on or off except for poi. My thinner barrels not so much.

 

[retired]

please note he was shooting 1.25 dia truck axle 30 inches long in a 6 cal.

a hunting rifle or similar may not react the same.

So if I understand what your saying, is that the Poi does shift with the MS installed, but the group sizes are virtually the same size, and therefore the nodes would be the same with the MS installed.
So I in essence, should be able to find the nodes on a ladder test, and they should be similar as to the velocity nodes, with the MS installed. Killing two birds with one stone so to speak. I also use On Target TDS. Great program.

 

[timeout]

I have used a magneto speed with success in shooting ladder tests. That being said, it wouldn't put much wear and tear on your barrel by shooting your ladder test both ways. That would be a better way of getting the answer that you are searching for.

 

[Davey Boy]

I have used a magneto speed with success in shooting ladder tests. That being said, it wouldn't put much wear and tear on your barrel by shooting your ladder test both ways. That would be a better way of getting the answer that you are searching for.

No that's true and that's what I might have to do. Just was trying to save time as opposed to wear and tear, as don't have that much time to be out at the range.
A labradar would be the ultimate to have, just a tad expensive at this point.

 

[Jet]

When I got my MS I tested it a bit to see if it shifted POI when attached. It did, even with 1.25" straight barrels. Figured if it shifts POI then it is likely it is effecting harmonics and it doesn't make sense to do any tuning with it attached. Right or wrong that's my thinking.

The way I use it for load development, tuning, ladders, etc is to leave it off since I want the rifle to be set up the same as it would be when shooting a match. Once a load is developed I would attach the MS, shoot a few rounds to get velocity so I can place the info in my data book.

Are ES/SD important to pay attention to? Sure, but it doesn't trump what the target is telling you.

Good shooting

Rich

 

[timeout]

No that's true and that's what I might have to do. Just was trying to save time as opposed to wear and tear, as don't have that much time to be out at the range.
A labradar would be the ultimate to have, just a tad expensive at this point.

I understand the time situation. I'm retired and can't figure out how I ever had time to work. The problem with your question though is that there is no way to answer it other than trying with your rifle. I've read some really dramatic claims on POI shift regarding the magneto speed on/off a rifle. Just because I haven't personally experienced that with any of my rifles doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

[KevinThomas]

Don't know if any of you guys shoot Smallbore Prone, but it's quite common when we're shooting scoped stages, we take the front sight off, and remount it upside down rather than simply leaving it off the rifle. The reason for doing this is that if you're using selected ammo (and why wouldn't you!?), the rifle was tested with the front sight installed. Removing it changes the weight on the barrel, which in turn changes the vibrations. Drastically. I've seen many examples of very good shooting gun/ammo combinations that suddenly opened up dramatically when the front sight was completely removed for shooting a scoped stage. Reversing the front sight is very common among top level shooters. When you consider it, if it didn't make any difference, the whole notion of tuners would be absolutely pointless.

Yes, it'll make a notable difference in most cases.

 

[chop house]

My Heavy Palma barrel give good results on or off except for poi. My thinner barrels not so much.

seems to me the lighter the barrel profile, the more the ms acts like a tuner. and you really have to watch for it creeping around.

 

[rijndael]

My v3 MS, mounted on a Rem Varmint contour barrel, tends to slide toward the muzzle. As it slides, the groups change a bit.

 

[Milo 2.0]

POI shifts do not bug me when using mine for development, and on an M24 barrel, I don't see much affect on group size. But I built a 6 creedmoor with a marksman contour barrel and the magneto is a super tuner, pull it off, load falls apart. I got so frustrated, put the gun in the safe early September and have not touched it since.

 

[rhovee]

I have wondered the same thing when using one with a ladder. It has acted like a barrel tuner for me as well as changing POI. I appeared to find a very good load for one of my rifles with it attached. When back a second day to fine toon and was all over the board.

 

[memilanuk]

it's quite common when we're shooting scoped stages, we take the front sight off, and remount it upside down rather than simply leaving it off the rifle.

It always made me wonder why the Palma/Any Rifle folks don't typically do the same. More specifically, if you do, people look at you funny.

 

[Shane Roya]

I use it for Loads to find velocity, ES, as I check for pressure signs. I do an OCW test with it on because why not and after do another test for OCW test, up to what I found to be safe loads for my rifle.
It does want to creep ahead after a few shots but I check it often. A Labradar would be nice for load work up as long as you are not at a busy range. I will just continue to deal with it.

 

[hikfromstik]

If any of you use mpa chassis then here is the solution https://masterpiecearms.com/shop/mpa-rat-magnetospeed-adaptor/ Looks like anyone with a bottom pic rail could do some engineering and make it work with any length barrel with different rod lengths. Mpa could make these fit any bottom pic rail set up if they wanted . I have a MPA ba chassis and still don't understand why I have to buy 2 extras just to mount this to my rifle. Maybe that's why I'm not an engineer ,lol.

 

[Davey Boy]

Appreciate all the info. Figured I could combine the ladder test using the MS, and may well do that, but also understand that doing both separately will probably give better results.

Oh and to the fellas who say that their MS creeps forward on the barrel as they shoot. Try a piece of rubber, from an old bicycle tube under the top strap of the MS. Haven't tried it as mine doesn't creep
forward, but heard that it works.

 

[billlarson]

anything you add to a barrel.... i.e. pressure...... in weight,tuners and brakes or bedding can not only affect poi..... but can change accuracy.......
bill