Please help HBN problem

[rmkey]

I must be doing something wrong. When I’m done coating I have excessive HBN on bullets. It does not wipe off easily and plugs open tip bullets. I clean bullets with acetone and dry to 160 degrees. Then place bullets in a bottle with impact “beads” and small stainless rods that came with kit. I then vibrate in a tumbler forts couple hours. Pick out the bullets from the media and wipe with dry towel. There are deposits of HBN clinging to bullets. This is more than just a frosty coating. I eventually get them wiped down with some effort and have to wipe HBN from bases. I only use Berger OTM tactical. The tips are plugged. I see this with HBN from multiple vendors with both 50 and 70 particle size.
Is it possible to use too much HBN? Are you supposed to dry the HBN prior to using? Just guessing. Thanks

 

[normmatzen]

When I coat bullets, I put 1/3 box (~33) in each of 3 bottles with about 600 steel BBs in them. I put hBN in using a medium flat blade screw driver as a chemical spoon about half the length of the blade heaped with hBN. I vibrate for 2-3 hours and when done, I separate the bullets and put them back in the vibrator with just walnut media and vibrate for 15 min or so.
When My bullets come out of the coating bottle, they do have very slight clumps of hbn. I used to put the bullets in a big wool sock and shook them a bit and they came out good. But, vibrating in media does a way better job as they come out almost shiny. The important hBN is impacted into the pores of the bullet cladding.
When I started with hBN 6-8 years ago I found the clumps (as you see) caused poor consistency when shooting. I backed off on the hBN and startd wiping in the sock, then recently in vibrating media.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

I havew to ask the question. What is HBN?

 

[spclark]

I havew to ask the question. What is HBN?

Hexagonal Boron Nitride.

David Tubb popularized using it as a bullet lube, substitute for Molybdenum Disulfide (moly) or Tungsten Disulfide (Danzac).

hBN avoids problems caused by humidity reacting with sulphur byproducts both on coated bullets as well
as in rifle bores through which coated bullets have been fired.

My experiences with it ten, twelve years ago were inconclusive as to its benefits. And yes, it’s quite easy to use too much when attempting to coat bullets on your own. I had no good luck using vibratory tumbler, favored an old RCBS I bought used for that operation. Got down to
1.0 grain of 50 micron hBN powder to 200 Berger 105VLD’s and no additional BB’s or SS pins, all in a large peanut butter jar inside the rotary tumbler for a couple hours. Roll bullets coated this way in terry cloth towel for three or four minutes, load ‘em up.

 

[Willie]

Hexagonal Boron Nitride.

Whoops, too slow.

 

[Bc'z]

I havew to ask the question. What is HBN?

Slippery stuff

 

[group therapy]

I must be doing something wrong. When I’m done coating I have excessive HBN on bullets. It does not wipe off easily and plugs open tip bullets. I clean bullets with acetone and dry to 160 degrees. Then place bullets in a bottle with impact “beads” and small stainless rods that came with kit. I then vibrate in a tumbler forts couple hours. Pick out the bullets from the media and wipe with dry towel. There are deposits of HBN clinging to bullets. This is more than just a frosty coating. I eventually get them wiped down with some effort and have to wipe HBN from bases. I only use Berger OTM tactical. The tips are plugged. I see this with HBN from multiple vendors with both 50 and 70 particle size.
Is it possible to use too much HBN? Are you supposed to dry the HBN prior to using? Just guessing. Thanks

try washing them with an alcohol wash before tumbling too. before I coat them, I will put some alcohol in a cup and put enough bullets in there so they are all submerged. swish them around with a stick or something for a minute and then get them out. repeat till all of the bullets you are coating are done. be sure to let them dry good before coating, don't want alcohol in the hollow points when you start coating them. just something no-one else has said yet, I do it and mine come out great so it might be something you want to try. good luck

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

I run 100 x 105gr and about 50 168gr to 215gr bullets at a time in a Lyman vibrating tumbler for about 2 hours in a container the size of a medium peanut butter jar with ceramic media, sometimes 2 jars at a time depending on how many rounds i need.
Dump them out in to an old sock or cloth and "polish" them from side to side in the sock for a couple minutes

Some bullets the meplat gets clogged up and some don't, if I use them for hunting ill just make sure they are open if they get used for steel or paper the HBN in the meplat goes along for the ride

As they come out of the vibrator

After a bit of shaking around

Before and after treating

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Sorry about the size of the images

 

[nated]

I'm using Tubb's procedure and it does not use ball media. I've used this method a number of times with consistently good results that produces a very good continuous coating. Don't use balls let the bullets plate each other. the first time I did it this way I thought oh brother this isn't gonna work... I was completely WRONG. I don't have an opinion on cleaning or not cleaning, if I do clean I clean with aerosol brake cleaner and have had zero adverse effects. Time, 2 hours is overkill they look damn good at 1 hour; vibratory tumbler used.

 

[R.Morehouse]

Watch Tubbs video on how to. I do it his way with his product and have my desired results. I do not use any extra media in with the bullets as per Tubbs instructions & use his timing in my Thumbler vibrator.......Hope this may help a bit.

Regards
Rick

 

[spclark]

Be very careful with HBN, it is very toxic . It should be handled with great care. Research it.

Please cite references for your position.

As for mine, I'll cite:

https://www.espimetals.com/index.php/msds/434-boron-nitride

https://www.nanoshel.com/wp-content/uploads/Downloads/Metal Nanoparticles-msds1/MSDS-260.pdf

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/hbnmsds.pdf

Compared to other substances commonly used for reloading cartridges (smokeless powder, lead-based primers, any number of chemicals used for cleaning fired cartridge cases and firearm components, to say nothing about common household substances we use day in and out) hBN is about as safe a substance as you could ask for.

Common sense rules for handling it are:

Don't eat it;
Don't breathe it in;
Don't get it in your eyes;
Don't leave it laying about for kids to get into, or your pets;
Don't mix it with smokeless powder (pay attention to the comments in these MSDS sheets about how it can react with strong oxidizers);
Don't mix it with household bleach or ammonia.

 

[natdscott]

I must be doing something wrong. When I’m done coating I have excessive HBN on bullets. It does not wipe off easily and plugs open tip bullets. I clean bullets with acetone and dry to 160 degrees. Then place bullets in a bottle with impact “beads” and small stainless rods that came with kit. I then vibrate in a tumbler forts couple hours. Pick out the bullets from the media and wipe with dry towel. There are deposits of HBN clinging to bullets. This is more than just a frosty coating. I eventually get them wiped down with some effort and have to wipe HBN from bases. I only use Berger OTM tactical. The tips are plugged. I see this with HBN from multiple vendors with both 50 and 70 particle size.
Is it possible to use too much HBN? Are you supposed to dry the HBN prior to using? Just guessing. Thanks

I'm gonna ask an obvious question:


Why don't you just quit messing with it?

 

[rmkey]

Sorry been busy with pyrotechnics. The reason to use hbn is that it does what moly does without the mess and cleans up easily. I read the claim that if you zero with it your first shot is in the group. I have seen this first hand. I finally cleaned the copper at 60 rounds ? in stock 308 and to my great surprise the first group was dead zero. Group was 0.41 moa and the second was 0.44 moa with Berger flat base 150s Not benchrest but neither was the rifle. Stock Savage action and barrel in a Fp-10. I did treat the barrel with Tubbs final finish. The stock is Choat tactical. My best group is 0.3 but always in the 0.4s. I am shooting Berger 175 otm tactical just touching the lands.
I finally hit upon a procedure with HBN that gave perfection. Wash bullets in dawn and rinse with acetone. Then place the bullets , media, and measured HBN in jar in a drying oven, I use a food dehydrator at160 degrees for an hour. Immediately place the jar in a rotary tumbler cushioned so the jar does not bounce around and tumble for 2 hours. Remove the bullets and separate media. Place bullets in vibratory cleaner with corn cob media a let go for an hour. Separate cob or walnut media and bullets. I uses pyro screen. Bullets are coated and clean as a whistle. The HBN is plated to the jacket. This greatly improves the rifle cleaning procedure- just remove the carbon fouling as there will be very little copper fouling. I cleaned copper at 60 rounds and there was very little copper so could have gone longer. This is true for my 308 and my 260. My 22-250 gets under .4 moa with best group at .23 moa but it has a shilen barrel. My experience with HBN once I learned the proper procedure extends the copper cleaning and gives a cold bore shot on target.
I am no expert but since digesting Glen Zedickers book on hand loading for competition and the proper application of coatings has greatly improved my shooting. I now shoot exclusively Berger Otm tactical bullets in all caliburs. Why not? They are excellent target bullets and are good for tactical and hunting. My next build will be a 6 br- that remains to be seen as to what is best. I was going to replace the 260 and 308 barrels but now I honestly don’t see the need.

 

[Rustytigwire]

Can you provide a quantity hbn used for x number of those bullets?

 

[rmkey]

Measuring spoon provided with 50 micron of HBN. I haven’t weighed it but I would guesstimate 50 to 100 mg. A single container will coat 1000’s of bullets.

 

[Rustytigwire]

Thanks. I know it doesnt take much. Is your hbn 50 micron size or 0.5 micron? Does the packaging give a size?
Mine is 0.5 micron from a pound purchase from Lower Friction.
It gets used other places in addition to coating v-maxes.
Thanks for the guidelines and your procedure.

 

[rmkey]

Thanks. I know it doesnt take much. Is your hbn 50 micron size or 0.5 micron? Does the packaging give a size?
Mine is 0.5 micron from a pound purchase from Lower Friction.
It gets used other places in addition to coating v-maxes.
Thanks for the guidelines and your procedure.

Sorry 0.5 micron. A pound will coat an enormous amount of bullets!

 

[jlmurphy]

I coat with Moly, very easy, they look like polished jewelry when done. Place 500 cleaned bullets in a rotary tumbler with enough water to cover the bullets and a drop of dish soap, small teaspoon of Moly powder, tumble for 2 hours, rinse with clean water, place in oven at 250 for 30 minutes to dry water from hollow points. No polishing, perfect coating every time. I don't know if this would work with HBN, worth a try.