butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
Rain,
I doubt a borescope would help anybody if the barrel is from one of the Big 6.
Butch
I doubt a borescope would help anybody if the barrel is from one of the Big 6.
Butch
Picking a Great Shooting Barrel - Hogwash!
- Thread starter rcw3
- Start date
I'll buy the best borescope available, and pay traveling costs, for anyone who can prove that they can borescope a barrel and tell whether it is a "Hummer" or not. Anyone who can do this is going to be very rich.
Oh Sure Robert!!
You got's a "Osliguuderbarlator Scope" you made in your shop!! We all know how you guy's make stuff with them fancy schmancy machines!!
(betchya he's even got a some college professor computer guy on his side!!)
All ya gotta do is plug it in and wave it over a stack of barrels an you can tell what one'on them barrel's is the bestest just by the way the light reflects off'n it!!
An then you keep'm fer your own's self or sell'm fer big bucks to rich guy's!!
An it ain't fair,,
You got's a "Osliguuderbarlator Scope" you made in your shop!! We all know how you guy's make stuff with them fancy schmancy machines!!
(betchya he's even got a some college professor computer guy on his side!!)
All ya gotta do is plug it in and wave it over a stack of barrels an you can tell what one'on them barrel's is the bestest just by the way the light reflects off'n it!!
An then you keep'm fer your own's self or sell'm fer big bucks to rich guy's!!
An it ain't fair,,
That's just funny!necchi said:Oh Sure Robert!!
You got's a "Osliguuderbarlator Scope" you made in your shop!! We all know how you guy's make stuff with them fancy schmancy machines!!
(betchya he's even got a some college professor computer guy on his side!!)
All ya gotta do is plug it in and wave it over a stack of barrels an you can tell what one'on them barrel's is the bestest just by the way the light reflects off'n it!!
An then you keep'm fer your own's self or sell'm fer big bucks to rich guy's!!
An it ain't fair,,
Forum Boss
Administrator
rain164845 said:
A year ago a friend of mine bought a 30BR rifle off the web. When it arrived I scoped the barrel for him. I saw nasty rust, pitting, worn lands at the throat, and worst of all, a section of one land was actually eroded away, leaving a ragged worn spot. I pronounced this barrel to be "terrible" and told my friend to toss it and rebarrel.
Instead he took a recommended 30 BR load from this site, and went out and set a club record with the gun, which he now affectionately calls "Ol' Rusty." At the end of the Season, he won a trophy for the best BR agg for the year... all done with "Ol' Rusty" and that "terrible" barrel.
Just shows you never know....
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
KJ,kj said:That's just funny!necchi said:Oh Sure Robert!!
You got's a "Osliguuderbarlator Scope" you made in your shop!! We all know how you guy's make stuff with them fancy schmancy machines!!
(betchya he's even got a some college professor computer guy on his side!!)
All ya gotta do is plug it in and wave it over a stack of barrels an you can tell what one'on them barrel's is the bestest just by the way the light reflects off'n it!!
An then you keep'm fer your own's self or sell'm fer big bucks to rich guy's!!
An it ain't fair,,
I think maybe all those RICH Tobacco farmer get the good ones,...LOL
Wayne.
The chances of getting a good barrel from a reputable makers premium line is better than getting one from their ecconomy line. The cutting or buttoning of a barrel is just one piece of the process. Straight drilling, reaming, lapping and stress releiving are equally as important. These processes are time and labor intensive. From my perspective you get what you pay for.
Another important part of buying a barrel is the barrel makers honesty and integrity. Often you have to take their word for what is being done to insure that their barrels are what they say they are.
In recent years I was buying barrels from one particular maker. They were said to be tripple stress relieved and hand lapped. This makers barrels were winning lots of matches. All of a sudden I got 4 barrels in a row that would not shoot. I spent hours visually inspecting them then I slugged them at the suggestion of another well respected gunsmith. I found all the barrels to to visually look nearly perfect but all had tight and loose spots up and down the bore. All these barrels had extreme spreads in the 50-60 fps and were throwing fliers. I was buying a significant number of barrels from this maker. He or his website " guarrentees customer satisfaction". I set these barrels back and recrowned them. Both my customers and myself had several hundred dollars in custom dies, brass, powder, bullets, and primers. The barrel maker was contacted several times about the problems. His only offer was to replace them. I said their was no guarentee the next barrels would be any better than the first and my customers and I had already waited 6 months for the first barrels. I sent the 4 barrels back to the maker and have never heard a word from him. I replaced the barrels with another manufactures barrels at my expense. The replacement barrels produced groups in the 2s on custom hunting barrels. In the past 50 years I have seen the rise and fall of several barrel makers. In my opinion it is best to watch and see whos barrels are winning the most matches as this is a pretty good barometer to who is on top of his game in the barrel making business. Most premium barrel makers work very hard to please their customer. A hundred great shooting barrels get less attention than one poor shooting barrel. It is a small world in the shooting community. Bad barrels don't promote sales and companies suffer when a bad barrel surfaces. Poor shooting barrels happen to the best barrel makers. It is how they deal with the customer when it happens.
Nat Lambeth
Another important part of buying a barrel is the barrel makers honesty and integrity. Often you have to take their word for what is being done to insure that their barrels are what they say they are.
In recent years I was buying barrels from one particular maker. They were said to be tripple stress relieved and hand lapped. This makers barrels were winning lots of matches. All of a sudden I got 4 barrels in a row that would not shoot. I spent hours visually inspecting them then I slugged them at the suggestion of another well respected gunsmith. I found all the barrels to to visually look nearly perfect but all had tight and loose spots up and down the bore. All these barrels had extreme spreads in the 50-60 fps and were throwing fliers. I was buying a significant number of barrels from this maker. He or his website " guarrentees customer satisfaction". I set these barrels back and recrowned them. Both my customers and myself had several hundred dollars in custom dies, brass, powder, bullets, and primers. The barrel maker was contacted several times about the problems. His only offer was to replace them. I said their was no guarentee the next barrels would be any better than the first and my customers and I had already waited 6 months for the first barrels. I sent the 4 barrels back to the maker and have never heard a word from him. I replaced the barrels with another manufactures barrels at my expense. The replacement barrels produced groups in the 2s on custom hunting barrels. In the past 50 years I have seen the rise and fall of several barrel makers. In my opinion it is best to watch and see whos barrels are winning the most matches as this is a pretty good barometer to who is on top of his game in the barrel making business. Most premium barrel makers work very hard to please their customer. A hundred great shooting barrels get less attention than one poor shooting barrel. It is a small world in the shooting community. Bad barrels don't promote sales and companies suffer when a bad barrel surfaces. Poor shooting barrels happen to the best barrel makers. It is how they deal with the customer when it happens.
Nat Lambeth
Well said Nat, I had a 260 built with a Bartlein 5R and it was very inconsistant. I contacted Frank and told him about it and he told me to send him the rifle and they would check it out for me. I decided to keep playing with it and then finally pulled it and made a 284 out of it.
I sent the barrel back to Bartlein and they checked it from top to bottom and could not find anything wrong with it in anyway. Frank called and told me the results then said, "You tell me what you want to do" I told him I would just take another barrel because I still had faith in his product and as was said,"Anyone can come up with a bad barrel once in awhile" He had no problem with this and told me I could have whatever I wanted and he would either make it or ship it if he had it.
That is what I call customer service. I will be doing business with Frank again and I tell my shooting buddies the samething.
I sent the barrel back to Bartlein and they checked it from top to bottom and could not find anything wrong with it in anyway. Frank called and told me the results then said, "You tell me what you want to do" I told him I would just take another barrel because I still had faith in his product and as was said,"Anyone can come up with a bad barrel once in awhile" He had no problem with this and told me I could have whatever I wanted and he would either make it or ship it if he had it.
That is what I call customer service. I will be doing business with Frank again and I tell my shooting buddies the samething.
Forum Boss said:
I've been hesitant to post in here, because I haven't been through too many barrels in my time, but Paul's post leads up to my thoughts on the subject.
I believe when you receive a barrel that won't shoot, you've actually received a good barrel that doesn't 'fit' with your configuration/setup. The reason I believe that, is that I've changed bags and stock weights on my 1k BR rig, and it significantly changed group size. If I do my part in reading wind, I can put one ragged hole at 100yds. I added weight to the butt of the stock, and couldn't get the groups under an inch. I was able to duplicate that result...
If you were to screw a brand new barrel onto your action, and it doesn't shoot, then what would happen if you reamed a huge hole in the butt of the stock (reduce weight in the back)? Or, added weight to the forearm? Or vice versa?
As Raptor mentioned, he had a barrel that looked perfectly fine, but it didn't shoot. Perhaps that barrel would have been a 'hummer' if he had a different stock, different weight distribution, etc, etc, etc.... just a thought
Paul's example shows that a barrel that many people would have discarded before even trying it, is perfectly in tune with the shooter's setup.
Maybe I'm 'way off' with these thoughts too...
shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
These days, with everyone and their dog thinking they need to chamber, plenty! All ya' gotta do is watch the boards for questions about "how do I chamber?" or "I heard that,,,,,,,," Takes a mite more than just owning a lathe and having a reamer.tenring said:
Hammer47
I suffer fools poorly.
rain164845 said:
Would not place too much trust in a borescope. I have a Hawkeye and use it mainly to inspect my cleaning proceedures and make sure I am getting the bbls absolutely clean. I have inspected bbls on poor shooting rifles and have found many of them to be in great shape. Then on the other hand I have seen bbls that look like an alligators backside and they shoot great.
Borescoped a 6PPC bbl at the Supershoot a few years back that the owner claimed to have over 5000 rounds down the tube and internally it was in ghastly shape but that sucker would shoot right tasty groups time after time.
LarryDScott
Site $$ Sponsor
I have heard said, there are 2 happy days, one when you buy a new bore scope, the second is when you sell it because it has caused you to doubt every barrel you own. Larry in western Ky.
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011_10_01_archive.html
Larry,now thats downright to the point.The more you critique something ,the more you doubt it.I hav an old savage 19 something match rifle and it has actual voids where the rifling once was and my friend was sure it wouldnt shoot and even bet me it wouldnt.I shot a tight group at 25 yds and moved to 50 yds and shot a nice tight group.He refused to pay mee the money.He was a self proclaimed expert and you couldnt do it if he said you couldnt.He was a living borescope,guess his lens was dirty.I outshot him almost consistenetly and he hated it.I love beating guys with all the toys I cant afford,LOL Anyways,you cant always judge a book by its cover.Shoot it,and if you have exhuasted your best loads,then deal with it.Barrels are like towel paper.
Had a big name barrel chambered in 7mm STW screwed on a 700 action. It never did shoot despite stock, scope, barrel length and load changes. Didn't take long with that much powder to make a tomato stake and when I removed it I found the threads to be what I consider way undersized.I figured he just bought it off Whit! ;D
On "Old Rusty", I have a .222 Remington chambered 700 that was neglected by a previous owner that's bore looks and feels like a corn cob due to pitting. It has its limitations due to this but as long as it is fed FB bullets and you don't clean it or foul with 15-20 rounds after you do its a 1/2 MOA gun. No plans to replace it unless Robert can pick me a winner!
On "Old Rusty", I have a .222 Remington chambered 700 that was neglected by a previous owner that's bore looks and feels like a corn cob due to pitting. It has its limitations due to this but as long as it is fed FB bullets and you don't clean it or foul with 15-20 rounds after you do its a 1/2 MOA gun. No plans to replace it unless Robert can pick me a winner!
Welllllll.......after reading through all these posts and some from very 'prominent' machinists and smiths I will have to say none of you are right!!!!! With my vast knowledge I have acquired the know how and skills to 'confirm' what the rest of you are argueing about!!!!!
I have designed and experimented until my process is 'perfection' at its finest. I cut a 30gal drum lengthwise top to bottom so I essentially have 'half a drum'. Now listen and don't start typing to argue with me. I have a LP torch setup under it. I purchased 20gal of 'special' water distilled to perfection and purchased off Ebay from a mideast seller. To it I add 1/2 cup SD gumbo, 14 9day old newt eggs, 2tsp half grown skunk perfume, a bit of the finest sage from our SD grasslands and 1 empty Jolly Green Giant spinach can(12oz only). I lay all the barrels I am wanting to test in the luke warm solution, cover with aged coyote killed deer hide and bring to a boil, cut heat and simmer for 45 minutes(unless is is a SD winter day then time varies). Anything that floats to the top I sell on the internet to smiths and hobbists with more skill than myself and let them sort through any issues! Think DocEd got the last one.
Sorry I am just bored and figured Doc needed a kick in the nads for today.
Gotta leave early in the morning and drive 140 miles one way by myself and get my pacer/defib replaced tomorrow so need to get my lil brain somewhere instead of the real world. Last go around 4yrs ago was 2 surgeries in 2 days, $129K bill and the most pain I have ever experienced from getting by ribs spread, lung deflated so a leade could be sewin to the outside. Truely sucked so I am not relying on my luck to be any better. I usually end up with a heimlich manuever at a free lunch.
I have designed and experimented until my process is 'perfection' at its finest. I cut a 30gal drum lengthwise top to bottom so I essentially have 'half a drum'. Now listen and don't start typing to argue with me. I have a LP torch setup under it. I purchased 20gal of 'special' water distilled to perfection and purchased off Ebay from a mideast seller. To it I add 1/2 cup SD gumbo, 14 9day old newt eggs, 2tsp half grown skunk perfume, a bit of the finest sage from our SD grasslands and 1 empty Jolly Green Giant spinach can(12oz only). I lay all the barrels I am wanting to test in the luke warm solution, cover with aged coyote killed deer hide and bring to a boil, cut heat and simmer for 45 minutes(unless is is a SD winter day then time varies). Anything that floats to the top I sell on the internet to smiths and hobbists with more skill than myself and let them sort through any issues! Think DocEd got the last one.
Sorry I am just bored and figured Doc needed a kick in the nads for today.
Gotta leave early in the morning and drive 140 miles one way by myself and get my pacer/defib replaced tomorrow so need to get my lil brain somewhere instead of the real world. Last go around 4yrs ago was 2 surgeries in 2 days, $129K bill and the most pain I have ever experienced from getting by ribs spread, lung deflated so a leade could be sewin to the outside. Truely sucked so I am not relying on my luck to be any better. I usually end up with a heimlich manuever at a free lunch.I'll be thinkin' 'bout you Dennis. Good Luck, Doc.
Thanks Doc, I sincerely appreciate the support. Sure glad you tain't upset anymore about that 6.5 blank.
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