Penetrating Oil and solvent

[bsekf]

The information below came from an engineering site and I think it would make a good solvent too.


Machinist's Workshop magazine recently published some information on various penetrating oils that I found very interesting. Some of you might appreciate this.
The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break out torque on rusted nuts. They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist.
They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.
*Penetrating oils ........... Average torque load to loosen*
No Oil used ................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ...............127 pounds
Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds
ATF*-Acetone mix......... 53 pounds
The ATF-Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is almost as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price. The ATF-Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. You can also use lacquer thinner in place of acetone, store in plastic marked with 2 HDPE recycling symbol

 

[jlow]

Its interesting data and does give one some idea as to what might work. However, unless you actually have a chance to the raw data and description of how the “test” was done, we should all take this with a slight grain of salt. For example, what was the control they used for the study? How many samples was in each group? How reproducible was the data within each group?

In terms of cost, 8 oz of Kroil oil cost $11.99 on Amazon and will last most of us more than a life time, so cost is not exactly a factor?

 

[WyleWD]

This wound up in my "Inbox" a couple years ago. I had to refurbish/rebuild a piece of farm equipment last summer. This piece of farm equipment had a BUNCH of fittings and nuts that hadn't been removed since it was put together at the dealer some 40 years ago. Since it was a piece of tillage equipment, it had seen a LOT of outdoor storage and use.

Since I had to repaint it as well, and needed to buy some acetone, I decided to try some of the acetone & ATF fluid on it compared to some of the other loosening agents that were in the shop.

Both my mechanic brother and I both agreed that the acetone/ATF mixture worked by far the fastest and required less stress to removing all the old nuts, bolts, and fittings. Nothing scientific.... but JME. WD

 

[bigedp51]

Eds Red bore cleaner also contains ATF and acetone, the acetone adds the Capital "P" in penetrating when combined with oils.

The "nut" using these mixtures must remember that the acetone is harmful to wood finishes and synthetic plastic stocks.

CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner

1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.

1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1

1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS
#64741-49-9, or may substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or
equivalent, (aka "Varsol")

1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.

(Optional up to 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, OK to
substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)

 

[jlow]

Sounds like the stuff does work...

 

[Hopkins]

I used to use a similar concoction to Ed's Red that unfortunately can't be had now because a key ingredient 1,1,1, Trichloroethane has been outlawed. It was equal parts Trike,ATF,kerosene and turpentine.

 

[Patch700]

I used to use a similar concoction to Ed's Red that unfortunately can't be had now because a key ingredient 1,1,1, Trichloroethane has been outlawed. It was equal parts Trike,ATF,kerosene and turpentine.

Having said that , do you think a simple solution of just type F combined with acetone would work as a carbon fouling solvent on its own?

 

[bigedp51]

Below is a link from here for bore cleaning methods, the first product shown is GM Top Engine Cleaner for removing carbon. If you notice Eds Red, the ATF and acetone and top engine cleaner all contain similar chemicals. (strong similar solvents and oil)

Below, MSDS sheet for GM Top Engine Cleaner
http://paceperformance.com/attachment/37142-.pdf

Bore Cleaning Methods and Materials
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/bore-cleaning-methods-and-materials/

If you look Eds red can be made with acetone or MEK (meaning a strong solvent)

Gun Cleaning Product Tests
http://www.frfrogspad.com/cleaners.htm

 

[bigedp51]

I used to use a similar concoction to Ed's Red that unfortunately can't be had now because a key ingredient 1,1,1, Trichloroethane has been outlawed. It was equal parts Trike,ATF,kerosene and turpentine.

Having said that , do you think a simple solution of just type F combined with acetone would work as a carbon fouling solvent on its own?

I'm retired and worked at a military overhaul and repair depot, the super strong chemicals like Trichloroethane we used to clean engine parts in the 1970s are now banned for being too toxic or carcinogenic.

The present safe solvents listed above will soften and possibly help dissolve carbon. "BUT" they require a stiff bore brush to help things move along and help scrub the bore clean. There are buckets of cleaners used to soak engine parts in today to remove carbon but the parts must soak for long periods of time and still might need brushing. "ALL" these solvent will stink up your house and piss off your wife. My son gave me some Frog Lube organic cleaners and lubricants that smell "minty" after smelling my Kroil and not liking it.

If you have been around any AR15 forums you may have heard of running your AR15 "wet". Many use a 50/50 mix of synthetic motor oil and ATF because the ARs gas system dumps the cyclic gasses into the receiver and this 50/50 mix holds the carbon in suspension and helps prevent carbon buildup.

In one forum for cleaning the AR15s bolt carrier group and receiver there is a sticky showing odorless paint thinner and CLP mixed together to soak the parts in and soften the carbon. The CLP added keeps the parts "oiled" after being removed from the cleaner mix.

In American Gunsmithing Videos you will see the gunsmith cleaning firearms with a spray bottle of Simple Green. I have seen other cleaning videos where just Ballistol was used and have tried it myself.

Today bore brushes, tooth brushes, cleaning picks, Q-Tips and elbow grease are still required to clean your rifle.

 

[LHSmith]

Kind of amazing some of us seasoned citizens are still around. I recall many episodes of getting my hands in the parts cleaner to pull out a carburetor (hands still tingle), blowing out the asbestos brake dust when replacing your own brakes was do-able, replacing old style fluorescent ballasts that leaked that smelly oil with PCB's, getting mouthfulls of Sunoco 260 during the '73 oil embargo siphoning gas from my car to put in the motorcycle because MC's were not allowed in gas lines ???, and my all time favorite- squishing mercury blobs into smaller blobs with my finger in chemistry class as they disappeared onto the floor.
And now I have to worry about the accumulated effects of Hoppes # 9 and Butches Bore Shine?
How then, did we get so old....being so stupid?

 

[Hopkins]

And smoking 3 packs of Winstons or Camels a day didn't get us first. Trichloroethane was outlawed with the adoption of the Montreal Protocol which is to protect the ozone from CFC's and Halons along with R11 and R12.

 

[LHSmith]

Yup. I worked at a cryogenics equipment firm in the '70's thru '80's, and we had a huge degreasing tank ~250 gallon which was filled at first with Trichloroethane, then OSHA mandated a hood, then trich was outlawed, then freon was used and flashed off to the point of being economically not feasable. Perhaps they are using simple green now? However, degreasing was paramount to the products.....miniature heat exchangers for the Sidewinder missles, closed cycle Helium refrigerators used to cool MRI magnets so they become superconducting.

 

[bigedp51]

The good old days are gone and I don't miss them, the problem now is how do you clean a factory Savage button rifled barrel below without using Drano or EASY-OFF oven cleaner.

Savage throat

Two inches from the muzzle

I don't have any problem cleaning my cartridge cases or my handguns, its the rifles that give me headaches. :

I'm going to try a new cleaning solvent my son gave me for Christmas.

It might work on my 500 S&W for removing burnt on Bar-B-Que carbon. ;D

The rest of you might want to try foam bore cleaner.

 

[Syncrowave]

Omma venture a wild-arse guess here and say you're not (still) a married man...?

 

[bigedp51]

Omma venture a wild-arse guess here and say you're not (still) a married man...?

I have been married to the same wonderful lady for 39 years, BUT she may have laid down the law when I tried out my new pre-wash cycle and I got caught.

NOTICE: NO firearms or puppies were harmed during the filming of this posting.


(and my ear is still in the same place, its just a little longer)

I keep rubbing Imperial sizing wax on my ears and slip out of a lot of trouble.

 

[Catfur]

A lot of those chlorinated hydrocarbons were great for all kinds of stuff... except your liver.

 

[Outrider27]

My sister inlaw often used a varient of that prewash system, and it worked quite well over the years. She just lined the dishes up on the kitchen floor against one wall as they came off the table and about ten minutes later they went into the dishwasher. It was funny when you looked out in the kitchen and saw the little guy with his front paws in a big roasting pan and his neck all stretched out so that he could get his tongue into the far corners... Plates and smaller pans were no problem at all.

 

[Juma]

Eds Red bore cleaner also contains ATF and acetone, the acetone adds the Capital "P" in penetrating when combined with oils.

The "nut" using these mixtures must remember that the acetone is harmful to wood finishes and synthetic plastic stocks.

CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner

1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.

1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1

1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS
#64741-49-9, or may substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or
equivalent, (aka "Varsol")

1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.

(Optional up to 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, OK to
substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)

So you got 1 US gallon of above ingredients and then add 1 lb of anhydrous lanolin?

 

[DOGCAPPER]

Economy/custom version of Kroil can be made using Coleman lantern fuel and Marvel Mystery Oil. You want penetrating oil use more fuel..You want lube use more oil in the ratios..

 

[Webster]

Years ago I was told acetone was safe because it's a by product of human metabolism. It's now considered very hazardous. Avoid contact and breathing fumes if you use it.

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927062