Panda project - switch barrel

[Viking]

After having read the PS magazine for more than a decade, I finally got my act together and ordered a rifle. It will be a Kelbly built Panda with their FB stock + weight system. I want to cover both short and long range shooting. Both barrels chambered for 6 mm BR Norma. NF 12-42 scope, bolt adjusted accordingly.

- One barrel will be 28" Krieger ss with screw on/off muzzle break and 0.94 at muzzle, 1-8 twist. I will use this mainly for the 105 grains range of bullets. I may also shoot some lighter bullets with it, so I gather 0.08 freebore would be OK. First barrel with muzzle brake to enable seeing what I shoot at. Does anyone have any experience of the accuracy impact of using muzzle brakes? Same point of impact with and without the brake?

- Second barrel will be a Hart 1.25" straight tube, 1-14 twist, 24 inch finished length, freebore 0.035. This barrel for the 60-70 grains bullets. Now, this will fall into Heavy bench/Unlimited,cruiser class). Yes, most would go for a ppc here, but I am interested in what accuracy potential there is in a 6 mm BR Norma with such a barrel. Anyone out there with experience of a similar barrel?

 

[Cheechako]

Viking

Accuracy and POI with or without a muzzle brake should be the same. Only way to tell for sure is to shoot it.

On Cruiser rifle - Don't expect to win anything. You'll be shooting for fun and experience only, assuming you'll be entering registered matches. The 6BR competed with the PPC many years ago, and lost. There's no reason to think it will do any better now. Even out to 600 yards the PPC is still the more accurate cartridge with the lighter bullets and can hold it's own against the BR with the heavy bullets in good conditions. JMHO and experience.

Ray

 

[Viking]

Dear Ray,

my rifle is not intended for competition. Just pleasure shooting.

,Yes, I was expecting this reaction. The ppc is, without doubt topping the equipment lists all over. I will not argue against that fact. But question is alway why. Is it inherently superior to everything else? Or is it more simple;

since everyone is using the ppc, subsequently it also wins everything. Very clear, like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I do realize that if Mr. Boyer et al would find a better caliber, they would likely use it. But I still wonder how the world would look like if half of the top notch BR shooters would use the 6 mm BR Norma...

On these pages I recently read the below:

Quote: "Head of the Kelbly "dynasty" that runs the Super Shoot every year, George will be shooting a somewhat unusual caliber, a .222 mag blown out with a .45 degree shoulder. Similar cartridges were popular before the 6PPC became dominant, but George feels his .222-45° is under-rated. "If you had as many people shooting the .222 mag as shoot the 6PPC, you'd see some impressive results with the .222. It is very consistent and capable of great accuracy."

The above is along the same lines..........)

Now, I would still be interested to get additional input on the 6mmBR cruiser issue.

Should I be disappointed with the rifle, I can always get in line and buy myself a 6 ppc barrel. Monkey see, monkey do.

Richard

 

[terryb]

Richard,i rechambered a 6ppc barrel to a 6br,laupa brass.271 neck,Benchrest rifle,Panda action,the works.The 6br shot very good,but i think it may be a bit harder to keep in tune than a 6ppc,but when it was in tune it shot as well as a large number of 6ppc's. Jackie Schmidt rechambered a barrel on his rail gun to a 6br,and while it was very accurate,the old 6ppc chambering was more accurate.My 6br shot a large number of bullets,even factory stuff very well,and it was a fun round to play with.

 

[Cheechako]

Viking

The 6PPC is being used for one simple reason. It is a more accurate and easier to tune cartridge than any other. Benchrest shooters are very fickle. They have absolutely no loyalty to anything or anybody. If something works better they will drop what they have in an instant. Examples of shooters trying something different, such as George and the 22-45,a 35 year old by the way), are not the norm and when big bucks are on the line you can bet they will be shooting the better cartridge. JMHO

Since you say you will only be shooting for pleasure I don't understand the "Unlimited/Cruiser" configuration. That is a class within organized benchrest. If shooting only against yourself the 6BR will be up to the task and some of your groups will be outstanding I'm sure.

Monkey see, monkey do, monkey win!

Ray

 

[Viking]

Gentlemen, thank you for your input.

I mentioned "cruiser class" to illustrate the heavier than normal barrel, rather than to suggest I was going to compete in that class. I live in Switzerland, and you will not find any benchrest competitions around here.

And yes, of course, I know that it would be a better idea to have the second barrel chambered for 6 ppc to get consistently small groups. But now I can use the same brass for both barrels. The same reamer, freebore 0.035, will be used for both barrels. In a second operation, the Krieger barrel will then be throated to freebore 0,08 with a throater reamer. I will get a second Wilson micro stem for the heavy bullets. Some claim the 6mmBR will shoot all bullets weights well with a 1-8 twist. Others disagree. The rationale of the Hart barrel was to get a 1-14 twist for the lighter bullets to get around this complicated dilemma.

Another reason for going for the 6mmBR Norma,with a 272 neck) is that it would be easier to sell if I would want to do that. Reloading is no very common here, and particularly not benchrest reloading including neck-turning etc that is needed to squeeze out the best of a ppc. I am not sure it would be possible to sell a tight neck ppc at all here in Switzerland. With my barrels/necks, factory loaded ammo can be used. Lapua and Norma are well represented here with available ammo from 77 grains and up. Maybe the throats would have to be adjusted somewhat, but that should not be a big problem if needed.

Delivery of the rifle is year end. I am now looking forward to see what can be achieved with this setup.

Richard

 

[Forum Boss]

Richard,

I think what you're doing is eminently logical. One set of brass, one set of dies. No elaborate fire-forming, and you can probably even shoot the same powder with both barrels. What you're doing really underscores why I started this website in the first place. Many of us, for one reason or another, aren't particularly interested in becoming completely wrapped up in the 6PPC world. With my 6BR I can shoot 100 and 200m "fun" matches at my local club, and be very competitive with pretty much anything you see. And I can smoke the 22-250s and .223s many guys are shooting. The next weekend I can go out and shoot groundsquirrels at 250 yards. They I can load up some 105 Scenars and shoot 600-yard prone silhouette matches. And when I can convince my girlfriend to come shooting she loves the fact that the gun has low recoil plus such great inherent accuracy that she can hit a 1" sticker every time at 200 yards. What's not to like?

So, I send you a hearty "thumbs up" across the Atlantic. We're happy to have a Swiss shooter among our 6mmBR.com family.

 

[Viking]

Dear Moderator,

thank you for your encouragement and greetings. It is like you said, I do not get very enthusiastic about the 6ppc. It is very specialized compared to the more versatile 6mmBR Norma. I will also have my rifle pillar-bedded to further enhance flexibility.

Upon receipt of my rifle, I will report back regarding performance. I will test it in a,up to) 300 meter indoor shooting range!! The range is inside a mountain. You can have a look at http://www.bruenigindoor.ch/ueberuns.aspx and click on "Situationspläne" and then on "Nächstes Bild". Like in the Houston Warehouse, no wind flags needed.

Richard

 

[Forum Boss]

Viking,

Good report. I wish I had access to a range like that. Fantastic. Re the Freebore, .080 is a very versatile choice. If you're shooting the 105s nearly all the time, .100 gives you a little more boiler room.

If you have a chance and your neck diam. is large enough, we'd love to see some test results with the Factory Lapua or Norma ammo. We can't get our hands on any in the USA. I've been trying for 8 months to get a box. You'd think Lapua might find it wise to get a few boxes over here.