Pac Nor Barrels
- Thread starter ChrisNam
- Start date
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Chris,
PacNor isn't seen very much in short-range benchrest matches. But they are very popular with varminters and cross-course shooters.
I can only share my experience--My 3-groove PacNor cleans up as easily as any barrel I've ever seen. It's shot a 1.6" group at 600 yards, and averages in the low twos at 100 yards with the heavy 6mm pills.
PacNor isn't seen very much in short-range benchrest matches. But they are very popular with varminters and cross-course shooters.
I can only share my experience--My 3-groove PacNor cleans up as easily as any barrel I've ever seen. It's shot a 1.6" group at 600 yards, and averages in the low twos at 100 yards with the heavy 6mm pills.
Never shot kreiger, its going on my Warner rifle though. My former pacnor Remington 700 6.5x55 would shoot with any 6.5x.284 kreiger barrel. I was shooting bipod rearbag and they had higher x counts. I am switching to belly br this year.
I would rate them high, for a pulled button rifled bore they are very nice, however many br types perfer the cut barreled rifling that a boots or krieger offer.
RHINOUT!
I would rate them high, for a pulled button rifled bore they are very nice, however many br types perfer the cut barreled rifling that a boots or krieger offer.
RHINOUT!
I have a three groove super match pac-nor 6.5 twist .224 cal in a 22 dasher that shoots great and cleans up better. So I ordered another 224 cal 8 twist in polygonial rifleing. Chambered it with the same reamer in the same fashion. And it is to date the worst barrel I have ever owned. Its been back at Pac-nor at a month and they won't admit there is a problem with the barrel and they haven't even sent it back yet. I,m not sold on their customer service. Penny is very nice and she does do all that she can. I have owner hart-benchmark-douglas barrels just to name a few and never had a dud like this before. On the plus side I ordered two cheap douglas xx crome moly barrels from brownells for $150 a tube and chambered them up and they are both .25inch at 100 tubes. Go figure.
After owning, Shilens, Harts, Kriegers, Douglas and Walthers over the years I decided to try a PacNor super match in 6BR a few months ago. I cleans up real easy, little to no copper fouling.... BUT it's NOT a shooter.
A previous poster is correct, Penny is nice as she can be, but I've heard other stories of aggravation with them refusing to admit a barrel "has a problem"
However, most of the other barrel makers are the same way unless you happen to be a big name shooter... then they'll do whatever it takes to make you happy.
One thing I have learned dealing with other makers is never let the barrel maker "fit" your barrel. I've tried this 3 times and got a bad chambering job everytime.
There is a reason that high quality BR smiths are so busy.... they do superb work and they do it on their schedule, not on a production line.
I sent one barrel back to S****n twice, and they never did get the chamber right.
I don't buy their barrels anymore.
Also you'll rarely see PacNor listed on the top,or even near it) on benchrest match equipment lists....
And MOST of the winning barrels are button rifled, not cut.
A previous poster is correct, Penny is nice as she can be, but I've heard other stories of aggravation with them refusing to admit a barrel "has a problem"
However, most of the other barrel makers are the same way unless you happen to be a big name shooter... then they'll do whatever it takes to make you happy.
One thing I have learned dealing with other makers is never let the barrel maker "fit" your barrel. I've tried this 3 times and got a bad chambering job everytime.
There is a reason that high quality BR smiths are so busy.... they do superb work and they do it on their schedule, not on a production line.
I sent one barrel back to S****n twice, and they never did get the chamber right.
I don't buy their barrels anymore.
Also you'll rarely see PacNor listed on the top,or even near it) on benchrest match equipment lists....
And MOST of the winning barrels are button rifled, not cut.
Forum Boss
Administrator
Krieger cut-rifled barrels are probably the top choice in Short-range BR right now, but Shilens, Harts, and a few Broughtons and Kostyshyns are all capable of winning.
Krieger is selling all the PPC barrels they can make and they are doing very well.
I concur that, if you have the time and money, having a experienced BR smith chamber your barrel is usually a sound strategy. Not that Hart, PacNor or Shilen can't do a good chamber--they can. But the likelihood of getting a superb chambering job is better with a superior smith.
Krieger is selling all the PPC barrels they can make and they are doing very well.
I concur that, if you have the time and money, having a experienced BR smith chamber your barrel is usually a sound strategy. Not that Hart, PacNor or Shilen can't do a good chamber--they can. But the likelihood of getting a superb chambering job is better with a superior smith.
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
The PacNor .30 cal. barrels are proven winners in 100-300 yd. BR competition in both the VFS guns and the HBR,Hunter) rifle classes. My good pal Craig Nagel of Holmen, Wi. just set the new HBR 100 YD. NBRSA National Record,pending final approval from the Records Committee) at 100 yds. with a 250-23X using a Pac Nor 1:18 chambered for the 30X47 cartridge,'smithed by Roy Oines of REO Rifle Works and firing BIB Bullets. For those that don't know about HBR or Score shooting...that's hitting a .0625,1/16") dot 23 times out of 25 at 100 yds. with a 6 power scope that you can't resolve a 1/4" wide scoring ring with.
All mfgs. seem to have a bore size or two that really work, but it's tough for any barrel mfg. to be 'the best' in all bore sizes.
Just my experience...
< Also you'll rarely see PacNor listed on the top,or even near it) on bench rest match equipment lists....
And MOST of the winning barrels are button rifled, not cut.>
While the first statement is correct, I cannot for the life of me reason why - since purchasing my first thirty caliber PacNor barrel in 1997, I have used them to win many local and regional NBRSA tournaments . . . and even nab some Yardage and Grand AGG wins at the NBRSA Hunter Nationals. And when not winning with PacNor barrels, I have usually been able to scare the winner,s)enough to help keep them running as fast as they were able - PacNor barrels are as good as the best - period.
The, implication, that PacNor barrels are cut rifled, in the last sentence, is incorrect: PacNor barrels ARE button rifled.
About ten years back, a group of HBR shooters made a "group" purchase [of PacNor barrels] and sent the lot off to a California outfit called "Barrel Scan",I believe this the correct moniker), which claimed to be capable of measuring both the actual twist rate,s) and the UNIFORMITY of the twist rate,s) of barrels, in addition to inspecting and "rating" the interior finish. The plan for that lot was to have the barrels, quantified on the basis of twist rate UNIFORMITY, stored at the smiths shop, to be installed as the conspirators needed new tubes - only the smith and the Chief conspirator knew which barrels were which. The Chief instigator was to get both the worst and the best barrels of the dozen . . . The goal was to determine if a variation in twist rate affected precision - and just how much; this followed several PS articles dealing with twist "issues", such as variability.
The problem: there wasn't a twit of difference between the worst and the best!
And, the good folks at PacNor,Chris and Casey)
didn't have a clue that this "test" was to be conducted. The letter which accompanied the returned barrels stated something like, " with regard to uniformity of twist rate and surface finish, this is the most uniform lot of barrels we have ever measured" - pretty powerful testimony from a non-biased third party inspector! Further, all of those barrels shot like the hammers of hell! Following exposure to this info, I purchased my first PacNor and have experienced only good things; a few BIG wins and numerous opportunities to win BIG, which ultimately, were squandered via poor judgment.
PacNor barrels are very good! Good enough that I just took delivery on three more of the beauties last week - all SUPER MATCH SS deals! R.G.
And MOST of the winning barrels are button rifled, not cut.>
While the first statement is correct, I cannot for the life of me reason why - since purchasing my first thirty caliber PacNor barrel in 1997, I have used them to win many local and regional NBRSA tournaments . . . and even nab some Yardage and Grand AGG wins at the NBRSA Hunter Nationals. And when not winning with PacNor barrels, I have usually been able to scare the winner,s)enough to help keep them running as fast as they were able - PacNor barrels are as good as the best - period.
The, implication, that PacNor barrels are cut rifled, in the last sentence, is incorrect: PacNor barrels ARE button rifled.
About ten years back, a group of HBR shooters made a "group" purchase [of PacNor barrels] and sent the lot off to a California outfit called "Barrel Scan",I believe this the correct moniker), which claimed to be capable of measuring both the actual twist rate,s) and the UNIFORMITY of the twist rate,s) of barrels, in addition to inspecting and "rating" the interior finish. The plan for that lot was to have the barrels, quantified on the basis of twist rate UNIFORMITY, stored at the smiths shop, to be installed as the conspirators needed new tubes - only the smith and the Chief conspirator knew which barrels were which. The Chief instigator was to get both the worst and the best barrels of the dozen . . . The goal was to determine if a variation in twist rate affected precision - and just how much; this followed several PS articles dealing with twist "issues", such as variability.
The problem: there wasn't a twit of difference between the worst and the best!
And, the good folks at PacNor,Chris and Casey)didn't have a clue that this "test" was to be conducted. The letter which accompanied the returned barrels stated something like, " with regard to uniformity of twist rate and surface finish, this is the most uniform lot of barrels we have ever measured" - pretty powerful testimony from a non-biased third party inspector! Further, all of those barrels shot like the hammers of hell! Following exposure to this info, I purchased my first PacNor and have experienced only good things; a few BIG wins and numerous opportunities to win BIG, which ultimately, were squandered via poor judgment.
PacNor barrels are very good! Good enough that I just took delivery on three more of the beauties last week - all SUPER MATCH SS deals! R.G.
For those of you who do not know R.G Robinett, he is the gentleman that makes those fine BIB bullets, I called Randy a couple of months ago to order 2K 108's from him and we had this very same conservation on how much he liked the Pac-Nor barrels.
He is very, very picky about quality...
Chuck
He is very, very picky about quality...
Chuck
That was one heck of an endorsement from one of the best in the business.
Thing I've noticed about equipment lists from the various matches is that the brands used seem to vary by geographic location somewhat, Harts being much more prevalent in the NE US for instance.
What I have learned and paid hard earned money in the learning is the best barrel in the world won't do s**t unless it is chambered and mounted properly. A smith that does good work will make or break a project. My problem seems to be every time I need to build a new rifle or rebarrel my previous smith has moved on in one fashion or another. Then I'm loath to ship a rifle too because I've had two stolen and never recovered in shipping over the years.
Thing I've noticed about equipment lists from the various matches is that the brands used seem to vary by geographic location somewhat, Harts being much more prevalent in the NE US for instance.
What I have learned and paid hard earned money in the learning is the best barrel in the world won't do s**t unless it is chambered and mounted properly. A smith that does good work will make or break a project. My problem seems to be every time I need to build a new rifle or rebarrel my previous smith has moved on in one fashion or another. Then I'm loath to ship a rifle too because I've had two stolen and never recovered in shipping over the years.
I had a 30BR rifle built last year and fitted with a 1 in 17 twist Pac-Nor 5 groove barrel and it is great you could shoot all day before cleaning and there would be minimal fouling and shoot, the bloody think can shoot better than i have learned to operate it so far just went to our National Hunter/Class shoot and finished 6th all the shooters in front where Hall of Fame members who were all over your way last year shooting in the World Championship Bench-rest but i and the rifle will do better next time as it was me and the rest and bags that let the rifle down also this barrel develops its velocity with less powder than other barrels.
The first PacNor I tried was a 3-groove .22 cal. 6.5-twist on an AR15 service rifle used in NRA across the course highpower matches. That barrel won me two consecutive state SR championships and still shoots well enough to win when I do my part. I liked it enough to order another one for my back-up SR, and it's sitting in the safe, ready to go when the first one finally gets shot out. I've fitted & chambered several PacNors for friends in 6 Dasher, 6XC, and 6.5x55 - all have been 3-groove bbls. like the ARs - and all have been very pleased with their accuracy out to 1000yds. to date. I did have a problem with one 6mm bbl, and it was replaced free of charge.
I gotta back-up what Daryl K. said about how well his PacNor BR is shooting at our club's Varmint Silhouette matches - but then, the old saying "It's the Indian, not the arrow." comes to mind too.
I gotta back-up what Daryl K. said about how well his PacNor BR is shooting at our club's Varmint Silhouette matches - but then, the old saying "It's the Indian, not the arrow." comes to mind too.
Pac Nor Barrels
I will do a little looking around at the Raton Nats to see if any Pac Nor barrels are being used and by who. I assume Pac Nor stands for Pacific Northwest. Like the name. The standards are still Krieger, Hart, Shilen. Like to see some Broughton's break through and Spencer. Douglas is been around a long time also. I miss the days of McMillan and H-S. Hard to figure why more Lilja don't show up. Shot with Dan at Visalia years back his 3 groove unlimited was hot. If I missed any fill in the gaps.
Stephen Perry
I will do a little looking around at the Raton Nats to see if any Pac Nor barrels are being used and by who. I assume Pac Nor stands for Pacific Northwest. Like the name. The standards are still Krieger, Hart, Shilen. Like to see some Broughton's break through and Spencer. Douglas is been around a long time also. I miss the days of McMillan and H-S. Hard to figure why more Lilja don't show up. Shot with Dan at Visalia years back his 3 groove unlimited was hot. If I missed any fill in the gaps.
Stephen Perry
I have a Pac-Nor 3-gr. on my new .223 Ackley Improved, but the gun is still at the 'smith's getting pillar bedded and haven't had time to wring it out yet. Randy Robinett is big on the Pac-Nor's and uses them alot in HBR. I think there as good as any of the big names but can't back that up with evidence at this time. I also Greg Palman has a Pac-Nor on one of his VFS rifles.
Spotcheck_Billy
I feel no need to justify the use of Pac-Nor barrels to anybody!
________
Regards,
Alan:lol:
________
Regards,
Alan:lol:
I've just ordered 3 x 6mm 1:8 twist 28" barrels from PacNor with a request to suggest the grooves.
I would have thought the 4 groove barrels, but after reading a couple of old threads it seems as if 3 grooves may proof the most accurate / easier to clean.
I think after Randy Robinett gave his endorsement, a lot more guys started shooting PacNor barrels.
Any advice on which groove barrels I should order?
I would have thought the 4 groove barrels, but after reading a couple of old threads it seems as if 3 grooves may proof the most accurate / easier to clean.
I think after Randy Robinett gave his endorsement, a lot more guys started shooting PacNor barrels.
Any advice on which groove barrels I should order?
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