By box tuner I mean a scanner/obd port tuner like the Diablo sport or flashchips.
OT. Truck tires for gas mileage
- Thread starter robbor
- Start date
Also think of the whole system you are making:
Me, if had to drive the truck enough I cared about mileage (it's a secondary vehicle around town, drive it little but for hauling, and going into the woods) I'd keep the same size and get wheels to put them on, then be able to pretty quickly change over to the offroad tires.
I think a lot about what people are paying for gas when their truck rumbles down the road from big mudding treads, esp when their truck is absolutely pristine, not a speck of dirt or scratch on it. Road trucks should get road tires.
Me, if had to drive the truck enough I cared about mileage (it's a secondary vehicle around town, drive it little but for hauling, and going into the woods) I'd keep the same size and get wheels to put them on, then be able to pretty quickly change over to the offroad tires.
I think a lot about what people are paying for gas when their truck rumbles down the road from big mudding treads, esp when their truck is absolutely pristine, not a speck of dirt or scratch on it. Road trucks should get road tires.
Agreed entirely. I've been able to get up some pretty rough trails with standard Michelin LTX on my truck. Everyone should be honest with themselves, if with no one else, about why they are choosing the tire they are. It's ok to choose tires for the looks/lifestyle statement rather than based on realistic use cases. It just often comes with significant compromises to function and comfort.
There is a whole subset of high MPG tires, “Low Resistance” or “E tire” would be the terms to look for while shopping.
They were initially developed specifically for the vehicle manufacturers to game the MPG ratings of what they produced, and weren’t generally available or the price point limited sales.
Once the Hybrid market took off these tires began becoming easily available and the price dropped. Almost all tire manufacturers offer something, Michelin probably has the best selection.
A very common complaint with early Hybrid owners was tire replacement. They would come in for tires, get a price quote and balk at the cost and lack of selection. They would often choose a same size, normal tire due to cost. Then within 30 come back complaining of reduced fuel mileage.
Based on the number of complaints, they must make a noticeable difference.
Online sales vendors like Tire Rack that allow searches by product type will get you there.
Low Rolling Resistance Truck Tires at Tire Rack
Low Rolling Resistance Truck Tires found in: General Grabber HTS 245/75-16 Tire, Michelin LTX A/T 2 275/70-18 E Tire, Goodyear Assurance CS Fuel Max..tires.tirerack.com
okay - I was not going to throw gas on this fire but here goes. As has been stated there are lots of ways to improve gas mileage in a vehicle. The least efficient of which is by tire design. However, as the OP mentioned if he is using true 10 ply tires on a "light truck" application (1/2-3/4 ton) and does not require those on at least a twice a week basis. He can gain some help by switching to a highway mileage type tire with a kevlar enhancement, if he still needed something for the extra ply requirement. If he really does not need the 10 ply requirement and can go to at least a 6 ply or standard tire he now is talking real chance at helping himself.
Rolling resistance is a real factor on ALL tires. Some we choose to ignore because we want to go off road or corner like we are on rails and don't care if we are buying tires with pencil erasers for tread!!! ALL tires have a tread rating embossed on the outside and the inside of the tire - same as the tire pressure rating in psi!!! The higher the treadwear rating the better your tires will wear on the road in all tested conditions. A 300 rating is a pencil eraser and a 720 rating is good for 65K or better for general driving. As in gas mileage the enemy of tires in friction, so going straight is better than grinding the pavement on turns eating up the rubber via friction.
So tire manufactures can make tires last forever and do all kinds of neat things. We have Goodyear tires on the moon from the 70's that are still there and look new. The problem is a cost basis relationship. The materials to do all the cool stuff cost way more than simple carbon black, crude rubber, fabric, and wire. The new polymers, kevlars, oils, wires, and other exotics are very expensive and cost way more to process into the pieces that make up a tire. That also means that new machines are developed to produce all these new cool trinkets that arrive on the market that the buying public and the automakers demand for vehicles. As a result of all this demand the buying public realizes that their new vehicle rides and drives spectacular compared to our hot rods of the 70's and even the new wave of great cars produced in the 2000's and 2010's. The problem is now we as consumers can no longer go buy the set of 4 tires for 100 or 200 or 300 any more. A set of 4 tires will now set you back 500-800 or 1000.00 depending on what you drive. So I have digressed and return to the issue-- We can design the low rolling resistance tires and they WORK. They have special components that will reduce rolling resistance and give you increased gas mileage - and they will pay for themselves OVER THE LIFE OF THE TIRE. But most will not pay for the INCREASED cost up front and tire makers have moved away somewhat from those platforms due to inventories not making the required turns to make them worth producing.
So the OP can look at the fuel saver tires if they are in his size OR a size that will fit and not make his odometer off by a large %. Or he can look at the OD of his original tire and find a tire in a size that in not heavy ply and glean some savings in that manner.
BUT - this is still one of -if not the least efficient way to increase gas mileage.
Stan Lewis - Retired
Purchasing Director
Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company
Lawton Plant
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
Yesterday I refined my calculation while driving 12 hours home from a family visit.
I had initially noticed several trips ago that my Tacoma's odometer gained about a tenth every five miles by the roadside markers. I repeated the observation many times over different sections of road in three different states, but inexact placement of mile markers produced slight variation.
The five mile figure makes for convenient calculation: A tenth gained over one mile is +10%, and over 5 miles is +2%.
Over 50 miles my odometer should gain 1 mile. I selected a long uncongested section of I-80, recently upgraded, in Nevada. Watching the trip odometer and the markers rolling by about every 51 seconds at 70 mph, I waited until the tenths rolled over to 0 just as a mile marker went by; the odometer displayed xx49.0. Then I let another 50 markers roll by. If my error estimate was correct, the odometer would reach 100 rather than 99. It came in at 100.1, so the error is actually +2.2%.
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Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
@spike-55,
Great stuff, thanks!
Stan, is there an easy way to compare rolling resistance metrics for a wide selection (if not all) tires? Like the tread wear rating you mentioned. What I've seen is just vague marketing verbiage "like this tire combines low rolling resistance with ... improves fuel mileage ..." etc. Where are the numbers so we can do our own scratching with a pencil?
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Great stuff, thanks!
Stan, is there an easy way to compare rolling resistance metrics for a wide selection (if not all) tires? Like the tread wear rating you mentioned. What I've seen is just vague marketing verbiage "like this tire combines low rolling resistance with ... improves fuel mileage ..." etc. Where are the numbers so we can do our own scratching with a pencil?
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Old Navy
Gold $$ Contributor
He is. If dual exhaust would give you that much, they would come from the factory. Back in the day we dualed out everything. Not for fuel mileage but for better wide open throttle performance.
Old Navy
Gold $$ Contributor
The one I remember the best is taping two cow magnets around the fuel line.
no - that is not yet a DOT (department of transportation) requirement to be labeled on each tire. currently there are some research engines (like tire rack) that will provide some click functions to do a little search and compare, but not massive data loads that would let you cross-function brands and tire types. those studies do exist by the various tire makers as we benchmark our tires and all our competitor tires for all types of detail with regards to materials, construction types, wear factors, traction, wet stopping and things you can't imagine lol. i don't know if those eventually get released after the data is somewhat dated or sometimes we release portions to the press for release when we deem it is no longer proprietary. there was some serious discussion before i retired 4 years ago about the rolling resistance info, but the tire makers really don't want that info released. this would open up some really easy reverse engineering by some of the lesser players in the market. most of the larger players already have "most" of the info on each other, and don't really worry about the smaller guys that are trying to capture the left over/abandoned market
stan
In my original post I forgot to acknowledge Todd's post as being dead on accurate!!!! It was indeed a huge problem with these tires and their related cost that there were tires of the same size and type available for vehicles exactly the same , but not of hybrid design. j the hybrid folks would just buy the cheaper tires for their fitment and be stunned that their mileage would decrease. lots would come back to the stores and demand that their was something wrong with the tires!!!! took lots of explaining and even then several didn't believe that the tires would make a difference. but when offered the opportunity to pay the upcharge and change to the correct tires most would not pay the up front cost!!!!There is a whole subset of high MPG tires, “Low Resistance” or “E tire” would be the terms to look for while shopping.
They were initially developed specifically for the vehicle manufacturers to game the MPG ratings of what they produced, and weren’t generally available or the price point limited sales.
Once the Hybrid market took off these tires began becoming easily available and the price dropped. Almost all tire manufacturers offer something, Michelin probably has the best selection.
A very common complaint with early Hybrid owners was tire replacement. They would come in for tires, get a price quote and balk at the cost and lack of selection. They would often choose a same size, normal tire due to cost. Then within 30 come back complaining of reduced fuel mileage.
Based on the number of complaints, they must make a noticeable difference.
Online sales vendors like Tire Rack that allow searches by product type will get you there.
Low Rolling Resistance Truck Tires at Tire Rack
Low Rolling Resistance Truck Tires found in: General Grabber HTS 245/75-16 Tire, Michelin LTX A/T 2 275/70-18 E Tire, Goodyear Assurance CS Fuel Max..
wanted to make sure I didn't pirate from Todd - he posted and I jsut used his post for the link to the tire rack site to show the research on the fuel saver tires
Thanks Todd!!!!!!
stan
I kinda took a beating here the last time I mentioned Michelin tires. It’s a peace of mind deal for me to keep them on the wife’s car!
pdhntr
Silver $$ Contributor
Even though the original poster has been on the site, but hasn't seen the need to respond to any of the posts I will offer my 2 cents as I get the feeling that's all it's worth.
The very FIRST thing you have to do when considering a "taller" tire on a truck, or any vehicle, (but especially a truck) is to have someone turn the front wheels fully left to right, and observe and measure the distance between any fender liner or suspension member.
There are many vehicles, because of their design will not allow a tire with any significant increase in diameter without contacting body or suspension parts.
And further, as the front suspension articulates in off road excursions, the "taller" tire can cause damage to body and suspension components.
Don't ask me how I know this.
Jim
The very FIRST thing you have to do when considering a "taller" tire on a truck, or any vehicle, (but especially a truck) is to have someone turn the front wheels fully left to right, and observe and measure the distance between any fender liner or suspension member.
There are many vehicles, because of their design will not allow a tire with any significant increase in diameter without contacting body or suspension parts.
And further, as the front suspension articulates in off road excursions, the "taller" tire can cause damage to body and suspension components.
Don't ask me how I know this.
Jim
they make a quality tire. they are not the cheapest, but having been in the industry- it really is a case of you get what you pay for. lots of engineering in things you cannot see. plus the major factor of ANY tire is SAFETY!!!! you want you or your family rolling on the low bidder across MONTANA!!!!! been out there on wheat harvest in 1970 lots of vacant highway if you have a flat!!!!! there ain't nothing between Billings and Havre!!!!
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
More good stuff, thanks. Here's what Tire Rack's site says about OEM tires:
Most vehicle manufacturers demand their suppliers develop low rolling resistance tires to be used as Original Equipment on their new vehicles to help average out their CAFE-mandated mpg. In order to meet the manufacturer's demands, these tires are often designed with a priority on reducing weight and rolling resistance and are molded with slightly thinner sidewalls, shallower tread depths and use low rolling resistance constructions and tread compounds.
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butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
Don't you just love the trucks running around with the tires sticking out at least 6" outside the wheel wells!
The mall crawlers craze!
@Brians356
this all started a little before the cafe standards came into effect. the OEM's knew it was coming and knew they were behind the "8" ball and had NO way to meet the standards IF they were passed. there had been some movement back then to embed tire engineers with the OEM chassis design folks for cost savings - not this CAFE standard. the OEM for the last 10-12 years had started to realize that they could use a tire to wring the last bit of ride and handling out of your car versus having to develop expensive chassis components. so they embedded tire design and engineers directly into the platforms from the jump to solve some of their issues and lower their cost. think back in this time and what were the standard rim sizes on the road???? 13,14,15 and some 16 inch rims. now the OEM's are asking the experts how to increase rolling resistance - ding ,ding increase rim diameter. there is a reason the old cars of the 30's had those tall narrow tires hey!!!! but they rode like crap and don't stop well, so let's make them wider. now they are too expensive let's make them shorter - see where the cycle goes???? so you started to see the mass movement to the 16" tires then 17" and 18" to meet the CAFE standards. but a funny side thing was noticed by the tire companies we did not share with the OEM's turns out the public likes aluminum filling up the side of the wheel well better than faded/aged rubber. the aftermarket started to move toward the smaller sidewall profiles and there was a jump from the now standard 18" to the 20" larger sizes (how many 19" tires did you see). a new category of tires was created that we called HVA (high value added) tires. the consumer would pay more for these tires that had in some cases LESS rubber but increased rim diameter!!!! now the scramble was on to change the equipment in our old factories to be able to product more of these HVA tires. not an easy task in some cases as it could require revamping complete lines as these tires were in some cases almost double the width of the older production tires from a processing standpoint. but if you could charge premium pricing and the market was moving that direction you better move or be left behind. now back to the OEM's - they now realize the boon as well and you started to see the 20's migrate to their platforms as the public wanted bling on the side of the vehicle not dull rubber. for the first time we were able to sell off the rack tires to them for a while to the pickup market as a test bed for the 20 market. now the OEM's were on board to help the consumer with the harsh ride they experienced with the first round of 20" changeover with suspension still designed for older platforms. now it is a non issue for the very narrow sidewall tires and ride comfort as the OEM's have dampened with suspension components . raging success and now you see the 20's and 22"s on everything and the OEM's get even better rolling resistance with you paying part of the bill LOL!!!!
the dark side to all this is with the OEM's and tire makers developing platforms in concert, you need to be very considering when getting tires for your car or truck. not that any new tire can't help your old worn out tire, but there may be a reason to go with a premium tire. on a side note when you are at the dealer look at the cars/trucks on the lot. notice as the car package goes up, the tire package/brand will go up as well. this is not by accident, the higher end car packages will have the better tire/wheel packages for noise, vibration, mileage, appearance, etc. there IS a difference - things that make you go hmmmm!!!!
stan
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
Nothing says " would you like all new rims with those new tires" like a set of 40 series tires on a vehicle that either lives on a dirt road, or works construction.
oh yea!!! in my 40 years at a flagship tire factory that produced 60K tires per day there were some strange things asked by the OEM's the run-flat beginnings were quite the show and tell!!!Nothing says " would you like all new rims with those new tires" like a set of 40 series tires on a vehicle that either lives on a dirt road, or works construction.
stan
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
You were also probably still around for the Tesla tire?
Maybe that was the inspiration to finally retire.
There are some really good things that EV tire research inspired. It was almost impossible to imagine tires could be so quiet.
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