Ordered Calipers.
- Thread starter Sgt. Tee
- Start date
They are an incredible set of calipers, I upgraded my dial calipers to these as well, just because I needed something digital to zero out the comparators. Super happy with them, very high quality and 100% repeatable. Only flaw I don’t like is they don’t turn off if you forget.
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Real happy about your post. I will be changing my forum name to Sgt. Tee as soon as the one month requirement is up. I am Sgt. Tee in many on line forums. I used what came to mind as I did not know if I was going to stay and I am. This forum is very kind and knowledgeable.
No correct dies. Probably die setup wrong. I will find out soon. I took the die set apart and cleaning them well. Once I finish loading my 40 cal. I will start up 223. Stay tune for updates
dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
Knock on wood I accidentally leave mine on regularly and the original battery is going on a few years old.
I have a set of Fowlers that don’t have an off switch and I find them turned on or dead on a regular basis when I haven’t been using them.
The Mitutoyos are approaching perfection.
I have some good sets but I use cheap ones pretty regularly for anything that I'd use calipers for. If I need a more accurate measurement, I use the right tool..a good micrometer.
Even cheap electronics are very good these days. The biggest difference is in how they are ground and how rigid they are vs cheap ones. Even the best set is still not intended for absolute accuracy. That's a mic's job. But calipers are very handy and I use them pretty much all day for different purposes. Just not for anything very critical.
Even cheap electronics are very good these days. The biggest difference is in how they are ground and how rigid they are vs cheap ones. Even the best set is still not intended for absolute accuracy. That's a mic's job. But calipers are very handy and I use them pretty much all day for different purposes. Just not for anything very critical.
Just as long I get repeated numbers. Something I am not getting.
Fred Bohl
Gold $$ Contributor
I've been looking for a thread to question the use of caliper mounted comparators. Now that we have
Caliper Accuracy
Mitutoyo ABSOLUTE Digimatic
Note the accuracy of the caliper itself is limited to ±0.0010 and there will be additional error due to the fit and cleanliness of the attachments and due to the users technique. My son has been in the metrology business over 20 years including calibration of calipers and micrometers for many customers. He also trains customers employees in the use of measurement instruments. His considered opinion is that a regular practiced user might achieve ±0.001 resolution and ±0.002 accuracy while an occasional user might achieve ±0.002 resolution and ±0.003 accuracy for a caliper that is regularly serviced and calibrated (annually by current ISO standards).
You all should feel free to discuss the impact of the above data and comments.
I'll add for one of the best:
Caliper Accuracy
Mitutoyo ABSOLUTE Digimatic
Note the accuracy of the caliper itself is limited to ±0.0010 and there will be additional error due to the fit and cleanliness of the attachments and due to the users technique. My son has been in the metrology business over 20 years including calibration of calipers and micrometers for many customers. He also trains customers employees in the use of measurement instruments. His considered opinion is that a regular practiced user might achieve ±0.001 resolution and ±0.002 accuracy while an occasional user might achieve ±0.002 resolution and ±0.003 accuracy for a caliper that is regularly serviced and calibrated (annually by current ISO standards).
You all should feel free to discuss the impact of the above data and comments.
...and those numbers are best case scenarios. Nothing wrong with calipers, if used for their intended purposes...which are many.
dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
“Note the accuracy of the caliper itself is limited to ±0.0010”. I disagree with this depending how the wording is interpreted. The accuracy is never worse than +\- .001. The actual accuracy of the instrument may be much better. In my personal experience it *is* much better.
In industry we control quality using worst-case specifications. If I was producing actions or machined parts for shooting I would need handle my production that way. But in shooting and reloading we deal with actual performance.
Most reloaders use calipers with comparators. Repeatability is the more relevant spec for this. Good calipers like these are repeatable to within .0005” which is plenty of resolution to control the processes at hand. I’m talking measurement of a easy measured feature like a gauge pin or block.
Environmental conditions matter. Cold stiff hands, hot tools and components, different operators, and temperature differentials do skew numbers. My context is me, using my tools, in my uninsulated garage.
Now, are comparators attached to calipers repeatable to that tolerance? - no, not in my experience. It’s hard to get traditional comparators to within +/- .001”, which is right in line with my seating dies performance. The seated bullet is never as uniform as the gauge standards. To improve that variable further, if I so cared, I might lap my comparator to better conform to the bullets contour. But I haven’t done that because I don’t feel it’s necessary and because the better next step IMO is to make my comparator measurement point closer to where it contacts the lands. And that would trade making the comparator less repeatable but its measurement more relevant.
And for what it’s worth I do have some gauge pins and blocks. So I’m not making any of these assertions on speculation. I keep tabs on my personal instrument accuracy without wasting the money for formal calibrations. So far so good no surprises.
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Xerothermic
Silver $$ Contributor
I purchased the OriginCal to augment my dial caliper. I love it and it compares to the Mtoyo in functionality. Six inch version and it does shut off after idling for a bit. Mid $40 range shipped from Amazon.
Yes. Lasted one year and the battery, lacking an off switch, died. That was it for me and Fowler.
Kind of beyond my belief that they lacked that switch or an auto off. If they changed over the years I don’t care as I thought this ridiculous, thus that was their last sale to me regardless of they may have now. Was not something I thought I would have to check for when ordered.
D-4297
Gold $$ Contributor
I have a thirty-five year old "Mit" Dial calipers , that are just as accurate as they the day they were purchased . And that's after all those every day use in the shop days . Every time they had to be "re-certified" the guy from the Inspection Dept. would grumble I was wasting his time . Not my rules , bud . Talk to McDonell - Douglas . You cannot , and will not find better quality than Mitutoyo .
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Personal preference here: I don't particularly like digital calipers for reloading. I have several mid priced to inexpensive dial calipers that all work and check out on a very accurate standard.....and I will never find that the batteries need replacing. Among machinists there are jobs that are OK to be measured with calipers and others that require a micrometer. I have both. For shoulder to head, ogive to head and seating depth measurements I use calipers. For bullet dimensions, and turned case neck dimensions I use micrometers that read to .0001. When I am looking at a new bullet, I want to know the shank diameter to the ten thousandth, and I am careful with my technique, using a set and drag through technique for pressure rings. Loading at the range, which I have done for the majorityh of my loading, calipers have hit the concrete, rarely, but it has happened. When it did it was a $35 set that I stoned the tips of the jaws to straighten, rechecked and got back to what I was doing, knowing that they were entirely adequate for the jobs I was using them for. I would never want to have that happen to an expensive tool, nor would it have any advantage for those tasks. On the other side, I really like fine tools, and if I was always using mine in an environment that was a lot safer, I might indulge myself....but I am not so I don't.
I must have had a dozen calipers over 35 yrs as a machinist. Starrett & Mitutoyo, mostly dial calipers...if they don't wear out, you aren't using them. My favorite are the newer Coolent Proof Mitutoyo calipers, with auto shut down battery last along time ...and mine are showing a lot of wear after much use over 18 yrs. A digital caliper is not a super precise tool, as many seem to think, but a .001" + or - tool for general reference, and close enough for many things we do in reloading as .001 accuracy is more than enough for most anything most would care ro do. I never set up a CNC mill with a caliper to measure anything..period... except for how much to dangle a tool out of a holder for deep cuts. Every new tool that goes into a CNC machine must be measured with a micrometer, and inspected for clearences, angles, radius, tool coatings, etc 100%.& sometimes taken to the inspection room, & measured on CMM.
I use a caliper to get into the ballpark...then micrometers or other instruments to get the real measurements. Just like all those Hornady reference tools everyone quotes are only reference tool with a close guesstimate, not a true vision of what is really there...there are expensive electronic measuring instruments and digital inspection cameras to shine a light as to what is really there...CNC interpolated internal features like holes that appear round and measure in .0001" ..are not. So precision really isn't there or what you precieve it to be ...but the nature of reloading and shooting with all the other hundreds of uncontrollable variables.. it doesn't have to be.
I often feel a variable is what made a certain group smaller not my superior shooting skills, especially if it appears random...out of sorts with the others. Random happens, & variables intervene with every shot sometimes to my benefit...but "I" shot a great group...maybe not so much, just a random variation helped me out. Reality ...
Keep shooting ..I like the fantasy that I'm shooting pretty good today. Especially after all the time and money spent...and remember to curve the bullet, then the fine measurements and precision mean nothing... Einstein said so ...and I saw it happen in a movie, so it must be true.
I use a caliper to get into the ballpark...then micrometers or other instruments to get the real measurements. Just like all those Hornady reference tools everyone quotes are only reference tool with a close guesstimate, not a true vision of what is really there...there are expensive electronic measuring instruments and digital inspection cameras to shine a light as to what is really there...CNC interpolated internal features like holes that appear round and measure in .0001" ..are not. So precision really isn't there or what you precieve it to be ...but the nature of reloading and shooting with all the other hundreds of uncontrollable variables.. it doesn't have to be.
I often feel a variable is what made a certain group smaller not my superior shooting skills, especially if it appears random...out of sorts with the others. Random happens, & variables intervene with every shot sometimes to my benefit...but "I" shot a great group...maybe not so much, just a random variation helped me out. Reality ...
Keep shooting ..I like the fantasy that I'm shooting pretty good today. Especially after all the time and money spent...and remember to curve the bullet, then the fine measurements and precision mean nothing... Einstein said so ...and I saw it happen in a movie, so it must be true.
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