Old IMR 4198 question

[3dram8]

I thought I made a fantastic discovery when I bought 3 old, sealed cans of IMR 4198 powder at an estate sale for $5/can. When I open a can and poured some out, a thick cloud of rusty colored dust arose. Does this mean that the powder has deteriorated? Can I load this powder, or do I need to pitch it? Thanks!

 

[dhagerty40]

do not use it. the rusty dust is the powder deteriorating. it probably has a strong smell also.

 

[jepp2]

When I open a can and poured some out, a thick cloud of rusty colored dust arose

It "can" be just rust from the inside of the metal can, but as @dhagerty40 stated, if the red dust is from the powder, it is bad. Open the can and sniff. If it has a solvent smell, it is still good. If the smell is sharp it means the powder has gone bad. Your words "thick cloud" most likely means powder is bad.

I used to think if the powder was going bag, it would have less strength. But I had some IMR 4350 that went bad very quickly (stored under ideal conditions) and the velocity increased considerable.

 

[gambleone]

I thought I made a fantastic discovery when I bought 3 old, sealed cans of IMR 4198 powder at an estate sale for $5/can. When I open a can and poured some out, a thick cloud of rusty colored dust arose. Does this mean that the powder has deteriorated? Can I load this powder, or do I need to pitch it? Thanks!

Don't use it. Not worth it.

 

[3dram8]

do not use it. the rusty dust is the powder deteriorating. it probably has a strong smell also.

Yes, it does not have the classic "ether" smell.

 

[JimPag]

All those old Dupont and IMR steel cans rusted from the inside out and hence the rust colored powder. I've used it as long as it still smelled good with no problems but if it doesn't smell ok dump it.

 

[Link]

I have a question, how does it effect performance?

 

[6.5 forever]

Use it for fertilize.

 

[JEFFPPC]

There was an article years ago in Precision Shooters about powder that had gotten rusty looking from age. They washed it in cold water, spread it out on newspapers in the sun and left it dry. They said it worked just fine. Just for your enrichment and information, this is not a reccomendation.

 

[MSS]

Do not use. IMO if there’s rust on the inside of the can OR if the powder has deteriorated (strong smell), it was not stored properly. I have an old steel canned 1 pounder that I bought 15 or 20 years ago that looks and smells new so they can last quite a long time if stored properly.

 

[joshb]

Do you own a gun worth $15 to try it in? Then there’s the possible Emergency Room charges. You’re not dealing with stale cookies, here. I have a rule: When in doubt, throw it out!

 

[358WCF]

I have a question, how does it effect performance?

I'm not saying this is typical, but I recently had the remainder of an 8# metal can of IMR4350 that was showing a rusty color but still smelled like good fresh powder. In a 7x57, with the rifle & all lots of components the same it showed 5fps difference 33 years apart. Approx. group sizes were also unchanged. The scope set & forgot since I got the rifle & POI was also unchanged. The only different variable was that the temp was about 20* warmer with the higher velocity. As always, YMMV.

IMR4350-#6465R-----10-16-88 @65*-2630fps

IMR4350-#6465R------ 6-29-21 @85*-2635fps-loose

 

[Ray123]

Your inexpensive powder has deteriorated, and most who say use it for lawn fertilizer, are prudent and correct...it's not worth good bullets and primers to shoot..fact. But...if you have cast bullets or cheap old factory bullets and low to moderate velocity loads for your IMR4198 are very common. It can be used...I remove most of the red rust colored dust, by using compressed air while slowly pouring the powder out of 1 pound can and into a large cardboard box, while a moderate force from the air compressor blows the rust away. Load to a low or moderate velocity and it shoots pretty good. Ran a few pounds of IMR 4350 I purchased for $3.89 a pound new out of the store, through the 338 Win Mag 200 gr Speer new old box $5.18 per 50 bullets and CCI 200 primers $8.90 per thousand...down to about 1500 of those at that price. Assembled all the outdated components, and went to the range. They ran like normal the velocity 2700 fps on the low side, but fun plinking and able to take any game animal in the state. I believe some content is lost in the dust and the powder is lighter by volume now than when first manufactured...so that the charge weights should remain low. Old geezers, and folks outside the norms of society don't throw nothin out, but find a way to use it. I ran 8 lbs of Free Ireco 85 through the 50BMG with no clue except it was a slow powder...it was old no data but it was free...turned in some nice groups at moderate velocities.

 

[tommeboy]

I had a bunch of DuPont 4895. It had the inside of the cans rusty. I poured it all 15lbs into a large can. I rigged up a air nozzle to the bottom and blew air through the powder. I kept mixing it as the air blew through. After about 10 minutes there was no more dust.

I loaded up a few 223 rounds with the exact same charge weight as loads I was already shooting. There was a 30fps difference. This was slower. That was close enough. I ended up shooting it all up over 2 years. NEVER had any problems. The powder smelled just like the new imr4895. I was not worried one bit

 

[DLT]

Just curious, if powder is taken care of and stored in its plastic 1lb bottle how long can it last ?

 

[Bocephus]

I thought I made a fantastic discovery when I bought 3 old, sealed cans of IMR 4198 powder at an estate sale for $5/can. When I open a can and poured some out, a thick cloud of rusty colored dust arose. Does this mean that the powder has deteriorated? Can I load this powder, or do I need to pitch it? Thanks!

As the song says, "We takes our own chances, and pays our own dues..."
I've scraped way too much IMR powder over the years. Unnecessary? Maybe.
But I doubt IMR will offer much of a warranty. And replacement eyes and fingers are at a premium these days.

 

[Webster]

Use it for fertilize.

Nitrocellulose is not water soluble. I like to make a powder trail and light it.

 

[Webster]

Your inexpensive powder has deteriorated, and most who say use it for lawn fertilizer, are prudent and correct...it's not worth good bullets and primers to shoot..fact. But...if you have cast bullets or cheap old factory bullets and low to moderate velocity loads for your IMR4198 are very common. It can be used...I remove most of the red rust colored dust, by using compressed air while slowly pouring the powder out of 1 pound can and into a large cardboard box, while a moderate force from the air compressor blows the rust away. Load to a low or moderate velocity and it shoots pretty good. Ran a few pounds of IMR 4350 I purchased for $3.89 a pound new out of the store, through the 338 Win Mag 200 gr Speer new old box $5.18 per 50 bullets and CCI 200 primers $8.90 per thousand...down to about 1500 of those at that price. Assembled all the outdated components, and went to the range. They ran like normal the velocity 2700 fps on the low side, but fun plinking and able to take any game animal in the state. I believe some content is lost in the dust and the powder is lighter by volume now than when first manufactured...so that the charge weights should remain low. Old geezers, and folks outside the norms of society don't throw nothin out, but find a way to use it. I ran 8 lbs of Free Ireco 85 through the 50BMG with no clue except it was a slow powder...it was old no data but it was free...turned in some nice groups at moderate velocities.

Regardless I would not try to justify it’s OK. Definitely toss it. Don’t shake the containers. Pour some out, if the red is everywhere thru out the powder it has to be bad powder. I would think that if a metal container rusted the rust would adhere to the container wall and not somehow get distributed throughout the powder. I would guess the rust on the container isn’t the same color as the dust in the powder. It’s only $15 down the drain. I wish I still had the article I read many years ago. The article said that deterioration is caused by not washing enough residual acid from the process of making nitro cellulose. There is a spec requirement for the wt. % of residual acid remaining in the final nitrocellulose product. Apparently they ship powder out of spec. to save money.