Old dog learns new trick

[Gina1]

I was always having problems setting up re-sizing die as far as getting the shoulder bump just right. I tried any number of ways
ie the Redding step shell holder inserts (some times too big a step). One way I would check would be to insert the case into the chamber and close the bolt and see how it felt (hard close, easy close etc) and then measure it with the shoulder gage and calibers. In trying to "feel" just the right amount of bump closing the bolt, you are fighting the the cocking, firing pin spring.
SO Why not remove it...!!! By taking out the firing pin assembly the would bolt just drops down, closing the chamber with the case, if the case has the correct bump in it.
If the case is not bumped far enough the bolt will not close or fall. The die can be adjusted until the bolt starts to fall, or then some using your shoulder gage.
Sure made it easy to set it up this way. Thought I would pass this on.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Ummm? That's been one of the the accepted ways to check headspace forever.

Frank

 

[wkdickinson]

But headspace is not the only reason a case may fit tightly and not allow the bolt handle to "fall", the body of the case may not be sized well enough. I've had much better success measuring the shoulder on several fired cases, then setting the die up to bump the shoulder back .001"-.002". The Whidden "click" adjuster rings make this really easy.

 

[jds holler]

Yeah, sadly enough, the couple of times I've had the most trouble with "tight chamber", it had nothing to do with head-space. jd

 

[JMayo]

Isn't that called "the wheeler method"

I take it the ejector & the FP assembly to get sholder (or what ever case feel.
A marker on the case finds scrubs.)
And to find touch of a bullet to lands.

Ppl having their
"oh wow moments" thinking they are discovering something new !

 

[JEFFPPC]

I give the OP credit. He figured it out on his own. Today 99 percent want someone else to do the work for them. How many hi dress no thousands of thread o her start with....How to I?, or Help, or Can I. I give credit to this OP. Good thinking Gina 1.

 

[Gina1]

I give the OP credit. He figured it out on his own. Today 99 percent want someone else to do the work for them. How many hi dress no thousands of thread o her start with....How to I?, or Help, or Can I. I give credit to this OP. Good thinking Gina 1.

Thank you

 

[Gina1]

Ummm? That's been one of the the accepted ways to check headspace forever.

Frank

Sure wish you would have told me "forever" ago Frank. Would have saved me a lot of time. )
LOL That's what this site is about. passing on information.
Gina

 

[Link]

Sure wish you would have told me "forever" ago Frank. Would have saved me a lot of time. )
LOL That's what this site is about. passing on information.
Gina

Some use compition shell holders to get desired head space so they can bump the die.

 

[BoydAllen]

For factory chambers and dies you are probably safe setting a FL or body die by feel, as long as you are careful....but in other situations where the die is too big for the chamber it can lead you astray. One of the first things that I measure on the first sized case from a new die is how much it reduces the diameter of the body of the case, both at the shoulder and near that .200 from bolt face line. For example, a couple of friends had rifles fitted with high quality 6BR barrels that were chambered with reamers that had been custom ordered. What they discovered was that their factory dies did not size the bodies of their cases enough without the shoulders being bumped back too far. One thing to remember is that a full rotation of a die is an axial adjustment of .071, so small adjustments can be very tricky.

 

[FNSafari]

I was always having problems setting up re-sizing die as far as getting the shoulder bump just right. I tried any number of ways
ie the Redding step shell holder inserts (some times too big a step). One way I would check would be to insert the case into the chamber and close the bolt and see how it felt (hard close, easy close etc) and then measure it with the shoulder gage and calibers. In trying to "feel" just the right amount of bump closing the bolt, you are fighting the the cocking, firing pin spring.
SO Why not remove it...!!! By taking out the firing pin assembly the would bolt just drops down, closing the chamber with the case, if the case has the correct bump in it.
If the case is not bumped far enough the bolt will not close or fall. The die can be adjusted until the bolt starts to fall, or then some using your shoulder gage.
Sure made it easy to set it up this way. Thought I would pass this on.

You need to remove the fire control assembly from the bolt body before you use the feel technique.

 

[wildcatter]

Your on the right track, but as others have said, to dial a die in for bump, you first need to use a small base die to minimize the body diameter before you bump any shoulder measurement.

After I do this, the so called wheeler method,, the only accepted way of checking shoulder space in any particular chamber on your individual rifle has been to brake the bolt down to just the naked bolt body for half a century that I have been aware of.

You can use a proper shoulder gauge to bump any shoulder to the desired headspace you want, but this Wheeler method is the only safe way to determine loaded OAL. never go off of the bullet tip, and as any chamber is shot, this will change, this is the most important time to use the wheeler method,,, to assure the bullets riffling engagement measurement.

A bare bolt has been used for headspace checking as well as bullet engagement with the rifling's for decades, and should be the only way you rely on your results, but start with a case that has not had the fired shoulder moved, but has the body diameter reduced!

 

[wkdickinson]

For factory chambers and dies you are probably safe setting a FL or body die by feel, as long as you are careful....but in other situations where the die is too big for the chamber it can lead you astray. One of the first things that I measure on the first sized case from a new die is how much it reduces the diameter of the body of the case, both at the shoulder and near that .200 from bolt face line. For example, a couple of friends had rifles fitted with high quality 6BR barrels that were chambered with reamers that had been custom ordered. What they discovered was that their factory dies did not size the bodies of their cases enough without the shoulders being bumped back too far. One thing to remember is that a full rotation of a die is an axial adjustment of .071, so small adjustments can be very tricky.

That is one of the reasons I like the Whidden "click" dies adjustment system, it takes the guess work out of adjusting the die. It just becomes a mater of the math. Of course you then need to verify that the should bump is as planned.

 

[dgeesaman]

That is one of the reasons I like the Whidden "click" dies adjustment system, it takes the guess work out of adjusting the die. It just becomes a mater of the math. Of course you then need to verify that the should bump is as planned.

I like the Whidden click adjust does but they have the same issue all dies do - you’re blind to shoulder bump except to work up slowly and try. Once I had a set of the Whidden click dies I had a pretty clear idea of how far to rotate the die for another .001 or so. Even still I tend to get a little impatient and my first piece of brass usually gets bumped .003 or .004 instead of .002 as intended. If you do t have Whidden click dies, feel free to take a good close look at the photos to eyeball how much roatation it takes to move one click on those threads.

As for resolving a tight chamber for shoulder bump vs body diameter, a quick check with a the calipers as you adjust the die will show the body diameter getting smaller well before the shoulder bump begins. It really just takes .001 of sizing on the upper body diameter. At least that’s how every chamber has been for me.

 

[wkdickinson]

I like the Whidden click adjust does but they have the same issue all dies do - you’re blind to shoulder bump except to work up slowly and try. Once I had a set of the Whidden click dies I had a pretty clear idea of how far to rotate the die for another .001 or so. Even still I tend to get a little impatient and my first piece of brass usually gets bumped .003 or .004 instead of .002 as intended. If you do t have Whidden click dies, feel free to take a good close look at the photos to eyeball how much roatation it takes to move one click on those threads.

As for resolving a tight chamber for shoulder bump vs body diameter, a quick check with a the calipers as you adjust the die will show the body diameter getting smaller well before the shoulder bump begins. It really just takes .001 of sizing on the upper body diameter. At least that’s how every chamber has been for me.

If you use the "shoulder bump" gauge provided with the die, setting the die up is a no brainer. Ya, it takes some practice to be able to feel the .001" clicks.