Okay...Loaded question about brand of rifle?

[brl]

I know this type of topic has been covered in other forums I've been to...probably beaten to death. But, I thought I would ask this question here as I feel that this forum might have a experienced approach to the question as oppose to a love of a brand.

I am a lefty (but right eye dominant). All of my rifles are autos, single shot or lever action. I haven't really bought a bolt gun in the past because I've gotten pretty good at the actions that I have and the selection of left hand bolts isn't that big.

Now, I will be taking a practical rifle course in October. They recommend a bolt action rifle or certain lever actions. I'd like to buy my first bolt action for this course and I'd like to buy a right hand bolt and use this course to learn to shoot right handed.

Okay...first question! Am I making the right decision to learn how to shoot right handed? and at this course?

Second: Being the extensive list of right bolt gun makers, what brand do most suggest? I am unfamiliar with bolts and who makes what. For example: Mauser in a Ruger or Rem 700? Savage w/ accu trigger or Browning A-bolt? And on...and on...and on, etc.

I know this is a broad question but I'm really just looking for information as to where I should start looking and what to stay away from.

Thank you for any input!

 

[uncleduke]

I am by no means an expert! Find out who are the quality gunsmiths in your area. Ask them what actions they prefer to work on(probably a rem 700) find a good used rifle and have the smith go over it. (kind of like buying a used car)pick a caliber that you can buy ammo off the shelf if you don't reload. Choose a caliber with low recoil that lets you practice alot. You might consider a .243 win only because the bolt face allows you to rebarrel with more options. Dry fire at home to get muscle memory in place. Shoot and have fun until the light bulb goes on.

 

[brl]

Good post uncleduke. Thanks for the input.

 

[Bluto65]

brl....If you want to start shooting a bolt action, learning, handling etc etc
do not worry so much about the action, unless you love tinkering.

To learn to shoot, well to refine your existing autoloader skill and transition to bolts get a good shooter, this way you can have a guaranteed accuracy and THEN you can get/see the human factor accuracy and refine it. In my opinion get a CZ 527 Varmint .204 Ruger caliber, deadly accurate, around $600.00, 4250fps [published, really chronied 4105 @ 32gr vmax] flat shooter, dinky winky recoil, cheap factory ammo [reloads cheaper + fun labor], practice at 50yds, 100yds, 200yds...300yds. Zero at 100yds +1.5, dead nuts at 200yds. Good luck and dont get a rimfire!! [well unless it is a .17HMR].
You can always tinker with the trigger, which is great out of the box BTW, and do other stuff
to the rifle. Believe me I shot my new one for first time last Sat and was doing penny size 5 shot groups at 200yds, 10mph wind [and I am NOT a good shooter]. These guns like to shoot dirty
and really start clicking after the first 5 - 8 shots. When you do your fist shooting session save the targets, date them, then try to remember how you as the shooter
physically aimed, pulled [slow, jerked, or whatever], held the rifle, eye comfort etc.
The keep doing shoots and you will see how your aimpoint improved, how your groups got tighter etc. If it is an accurate gun you can keep improving yourself and not blame the gun. This only holds for new trainees, beginners. The OLD TIMER comp guys
ALWAYS blame their weapon, they really know how to shoot, wind and all.

 

[BoydAllen]

I would suggest that you not put yourself under the pressure of learning to shoot from the other side within the time frame of any course. I have some appreciation of what you are dealing with with one exception. I have shot on my dominant eye side from the start. I am right handed and left eyed. Luckily, I am pretty handy with my left hand, BUT some of my friends who are in the same situation, or like yourself, the reverse, are so strongly handed that changing presents a real problem. I would start with the rifles that you already have and determine if you can get comfortable from the right. Actually a full sized .22 would be ideal for the start, since it would allow you to practice a lot with the least cost and trouble. In any case, the only situations where you need to worry about having a right bolt rifle is for shooting from positions where you support the rifle with your non trigger hand. For all other situations, when looking at the alternates of RR and LL (right bolt and port, etc.) a LL may actually be better. How do I know this? I have spent a lot of time shooting RR, LR and some shooting LL. Another thing, once you decide to change, give yourself six months or a year of only shooting that way, no going back and forth. If at the end of that time you are not comfortable, you will probably never be.

 

[RJinTexas]

First off eye dominance is negated by the use of a scope, as long as you close the eye your not using for sighting the scope. The only drawback to doing that is that you eliminiate a portion of your fields of view. Let take target shooting for example if your shooting with your dominate eye you can shoot with both eyes open this will help you to visually pick up wind shift changes much quicker and makes observing your wind flags much easier. I am right handed but left eye dominate and I shoot right handed using my right non-dominate eye, I simply cose my left dominate eye. Where I feel I'm most handicapped is on running targets, like when hunting from a stand and a bunch of wild hogs come into a corn feeder, the second and third shots are slowed by my smaller one eyed field of view on the now running critters. When shooting p-dogs from a bench I never notice a disadvantage. For shooting from a bench I prefer a right bolt / left port action. Savage is the only manufacture offering this in a factory rifle at this time that I'm aware of and they do come with the Accu-Trigger. Better yet look for a good used custom rifle, maybe with a Remington clone action with rb/lp, this configuration should make switching hands somewhat less difficult for you. But prior to laying down some serious money I take Boyd's advise to see if your going to be able to switch comfortably.

Regards
RJ

 

[brl]

Great input guys. I really appreciate you taking the time to give me some feedback. All advice makes sense.

I figured it would take a while to become adjusted to the switch but the class would b a good start. I do have a Browning BLR lever action in 7mm-08 (that I really like) that might be a good fit for the class...as they did say bolt action rifles and select lever actions. I am assuming that the Browning would fit into the "select" category but I will call to find out. I am thinking they just don't want someone showing up with a .30-30 and trying to hit targets at 600 yards. I will also ask why they might not want the use of semi-auto...such as the case with my Remington 7400 in .30-06 or a Bushmaster in .308. I assume that they save that for the "Tactical" Rifle/carbine class.

Thank you again!!

 

[brl]

I just read a section on good factory actions on 6mmbr that listed Howa actions. I've heard of Howa before but I've never read any post, here or elsewhere, about the rifles. It doesn't seem that they are very popular. Are they decent rifles? They are priced in lower portion of the scale.

Thanks!!

 

[Tommy Leroy Johnson]

Weatherby Vangaurd rifles are Howas, for the best performance they all need to be tuned, bedding, crown and trigger job just as any factory rifle will need.
I build alot of long range varmint rifles and have built 2 rifles using Howa actions both are superb shooters, one in 6mm Remington with an 8 twist barrel was used to shoot a ground squirrel at 1,050 yards.
Good luck in your search.

 

[RJinTexas]

BRL,When one is looking to turn a factory rifle into a accurate long range rifle the main reason you'll see the Remington 700 action or a Rem clone used is that there are so many good aftermarket components available for these actions which all will help improve accurcy. First off no rifle is capable of shooting any better then it's barrel and there's a world of difference in the average factory barrel and the quality found in a custom after market barrel. Which will need to be chambered and install by a competent gun smith. The second most important rifle part is the trigger. Now you can get most smiths to adjust your factory trigger to a fairly satisfactory pull weight for under 100.00 but it still not on par with a Jewell trigger which cost around 200.00. Third on the list is your stock, you can simply choose to bed your factory stock or purchase one of the much improved aftermarket stocks such as a McMillan, H&S Percision, or a Bell & Carlson just to list a few. Next if your using a factory action you should have your smith true your action when he installs your after market barrel. Slap on a picatinny one piece base and a good quality scope and you have the makings of a rifle that should have the capability of consistently producing sub moa accurcy out to a 1000yds. You'll need to decide first off just what the primiary use of your rifle will be. If it's going to used for hunting what type of hunting, there's a big difference in a rifle that's your looking to use primarily as a walking & stalking carry rifle and one that's will be used mostly from a hunting stand and it is weight requirments. The lighter the rifle the easier it is to carry but it will also produce much more felt recoil, which isn't a good thing for target shooting. A tactical style bolt rifle while not a light weight can also do double duty as a hunting stand rifle and while not the best choice in stock design will still shoot decently off a front rest or bi-pod from a bench. Being you don't already own a bolt rifle is why I'm suggesting using one of the aftermarket custom Remington clone actions which can be purchased in your choice of right or left bolt or ports. You wouldn't have the expense of having a smith true the factory action, no need to purchase a after market firing pin assembly and recoil lug all which would have you spending close to cost of a custom action. And if you ever do decide to sell the rifle the custom action will command a higher price then a trued Remington. There's simply so many more top notch after market choices available to you when using a action having the 700's footprint. A lot of used quality components can be found for sale on forms such as this one. Your obviously interested in learning to shoot at distance or you would be taking the instructional class. It would be nice if you could borrow a good shooting rifle from a friend, lets say a .308 Win just because you can purchase good factory target ammo from Black Hills or Federal and could see if switching to a right handed rifle is going work for you. I hope this lengthy post is of some assistance to you.

Regards
RJ

 

[brl]

Thanks Tommy and RJ.

RJ, good points in your post. I have several reasons for taking this class. My main goal in taking this class is to become a better shot with a rifle for hunting purposes. Yes, the class will take us out to 600 yards but the main objective is having us handle a rifle better and in field positions. I did contact the instructor and he told me the my AR-10 in .308 would be a good rifle to use for this class. If I did that, then he would bring his Winchester M70 in .308 to get me getting familiar with cycling the bolt and cycling with my right hand. Otherwise I'd bring my Browning lever action in 7mm-08. I appreciated his offer as this would allow me not to HAVE to buy a bolt gun in RH until after the class and see what shooting RH-ed would be like.

When I do purchase a RH bolt gun, if that is the right thing to do VS a LH gun, then my priority will be for hunting. NOW, being that I have a strong interest in shooting at the range now and the curiosity I have for competitive shooting, I'm sure aftermarket add ons and upgrades will probably be in my future.

Again, guys...you gave me a lot of insight here that will help me in my decision making.

Thank you!!

 

[Yellow11]

What are the little people telling you in your head?

If you are up for the challenge, work to the master eye.

I am a left hooker but I shoot off my right shoulder. I've been doing it so long now that I had forgotten about being a lefty, with a rifle, until I read your post.

 

[Tommy Leroy Johnson]

If you are going to compete later use a Remington 700 or Remington 700 foot print after market clones there are lots of them you can add on and upgrade till you're broke, A true custom doesn't cost much more do some research and see which one will be best for your application.
Like government contracts low bidder is not always the best.

 

[cliffy]

RIGHT EYE DOMINANT people, should use their RIGHT EYE and shoot RIGHT-HANDED. So many left-eye dominant people STILL attempt to shot right-handed, that rifle manufacturers laugh and continue to dominate the market with right-handed models. Eye dominance should dominate which side one should shoot from, not from what's available in-stock. Doesn't matter if one is left or right-handed when gripping a spoon or fork, since shooting for accuracy is different. Brand of Riflewise: Most rifle manufacturers brand us RIGHT-EYE DOMINANT at birth, so left-handed models are rare. Soon, hopefully, Ruger and Remington will extend their line of left-handed models to sell more rifles to a much broader market! Cliffy

 

[brl]

Thanks for all the posts gentlemen. The info really did help. Luckily, there is a gun show this weekend only about 30 minutes away. I will attend and handle as many RH bolt actions as I can. If I see a used one in good shape, I may just pick one up for that Practical Rifle class. If not, at least it will give me a decent idea as to which models fit me better.

After talking to the instructor who is giving the class, I feel good about switching from a lefty to a righty...my dominant eye side.

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.

 

[SAKO KID]

Sako Sako Sako 5,shot 1 inch groups guaranteed never heard of any one having to true a sako action, great triggers best stock design out there, look for a model 75. hard to find them used most guys who buy them keep them. the sako hunters are good too. just one more thing to think about.

 

[brl]

Thanks for the tip. I actually did go to Bass Pro yesterday due to their large selection. I was able to handle most brands and models to get a feel for what fit. They had a Sako A7 that felt really nice to shoulder and the action was very smoothie, very nice trigger...although, all of my rifles are levers, singles and semi autos so I'm not used to the best. They had that at $629. I also liked the Tika T3 and Browning X bolt. All felt well to the shoulder and were smooth.

But, all the rifles I handled (even the $399 Marlin XS7) felt better than what I'm used to...with the exception of maybe my Bushmaster AR10 in .308.

I know I'm probably putting more thought/effort into buying my first bolt gun than is necessary. I'm sure all those factory guns will shoot better than I can and will fit the bill for the rifle class as well as my go to gun for deer hunting. But, I just have a hard time with it. I think it's easier to decide when buying a car than a rifle.

Thanks everyone!!

 

[brl]

I wanted to add that shouldering and cycling the bolt from my right side didn't seem as awkward as I thought it was going to be. And, by the time I was about the leave the store, I felt pretty good using my right side. Even the gun shop guy said, "you're getting pretty good with your right hand". I know shooting from that side will be another story but I will shoot some .22 at the range RH over the next couple month before buying something, probably.

 

[Pete K.]

BRL,

You did not mention what you plan to spend for your first bolt action rifle. If you buy a used rifle you can spend a lot of money to have a gunsmith make it more accurate if you know of a competent gunsmith. You could buy a Savage Stevens rifle that will allow YOU to swap barrels, calibers etc with only a couple of tools such as a barrel nut wrench, a couple of blocks of wood and a vise. You would also need a go and no go gage in the correct caliber.
If you are looking for a new rifle that has ALL the finer touches that a gunsmith might provide at big bucks but included in the price of the new rifle look at the Savage line. This video is just to make you aware at what they are doing and offering in the final price of some of their rifle models.

http://www.savagearms.com/accuracy/

This type of work done by a competent gunsmith would add many hundreds or more to the cost of a rifle. Think hard on how you will mostly use the bolt action rifle and keep that in mind to guide your purchase. If it is for hunting then the size of the game and distance of your typical shots will determine the caliber, weight of the rifle, requirements for optics etc. The same applies for Bench rest target shooting and occasional varmint hunting where a heavier gun in a fast flat longer distance round is typical.
In a Savage rifle as long as the bolt head is the same diameter you can have several barrels for different calibers and use the same action, stock and scope to in effect have three or more rifles in one package. Now the cost per caliber comes way down. Some shooters buy the least expensive Stevens rifle for the action and barrel only with the plan to restock it immediately for their shooting style and needs, then add a couple of extra barrels in different calibers to have a varmint gun, a deer gun, a target gun etc with one action.
Check all around for prices and then check Bud's gun store online. Their prices are delivered to you. They are gun people and they are huge!! I had a very good experience with them when the mounted my Nikon Monarch scope in Signature Zee rings and sighted it one grid high all for $25 labor. It saved me time, frustration in ordering the wrong height rings/mounts etc and was dead on @ 100 with the first shots fired!! They also beat all other prices on the internet.
Think it over long and hard as to what you really require/want/ need and go for it. If money is no object look at the left feed/right eject action they offer. Left handers love this action as they can left hand load while keeping they eye on the scope and their finger near the trigger housing. Ask a lot of questions about barrel twist rate based on how you are going to use the rifle and the bullet weight you will need. Get it right from the get go. Ask if you are not sure. Do you reload?? If so that opens all kinds of choices, 6MM, 6br, 6ppc for medium and long distance up to 1K accurate shooting and hunting....

Best wishes,

Pete K.

 

[brl]

Well, I was hoping to stay in the $500 - $700 range.

I talked to the instructor yesterday and he recommended that if I were going to buy a rifle specifically for this class, he thought it should be the Winchester M70. He really likes its strength and stability for this kind of class. There will be A LOT of rapid fire shooting and he has seen other rifles start to get sticky and hard to cycle with the heat build up (as well as accuracy drop off substantially)...didn't mention brands and I didn't ask. Kind of curious now.

His main point was...most hunting rifles will shoot well; accurate, smooth, etc., from a bench or even field positions. But, when you start to shoot 200 - 250 rounds in one day with a lot of rapid fire, many start to have issues. We'll be doing some tactical style shooting with a practical hunting rifle and learning to get fast with a bolt action...both cycling and loading, shooting and re-loading in the dark/dusk, etc.

This sounds like a fun class and I'd like to be well prepared.