Ok, Been Out Of It For a While
- Thread starter USMCDOC
- Start date
Not sure what F/TR means. There are a lot of folks over on Snipershide that are competition / long range shooters, and I lurk there a lot also. The current rave is the Vortex Razor Gen II HD series 4.5-27X56mm, 34mm tube. I got one from SWFA over the 4th weekend sale. Mine has the Mil reticle that is a Horus-like christmas tree affair for holdovers with windage and lead. Illuminated and has glass that lets you know where your $$$ went. Not cheap, but cheaper than comparable glass that costs a LOT more IMHO.
Well, I know what F-TR means so perhaps I can offer an answer. I see a lot of Nightforce BR 12-42X56 with NP2DD or similar. I see some with the NXS equivalent. Nightforce has introduced a Competition 15-55X52.
Leupold has a VX-6 7-42X56.
Vortex has some also, not familiar with those.
I have a March-X 5-50X56, they also make an 8-80X56.
Leupold has a VX-6 7-42X56.
Vortex has some also, not familiar with those.
I have a March-X 5-50X56, they also make an 8-80X56.
lawman29
Gold $$ Contributor
The info on the vortex:http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/vortex-golden-eagle-scope.3903412/
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Most commonly purchased F-TR scope currently is probably the NF Competition. You'll also find quite a few NF BR scopes. The NF NXS scopes are great, but the most useful for F-TR, IMO, the 12-42X56 version, is no longer made; it was replaced in their lineup by the Competition model. The balance may change in the near future as Vortex has just recently started supplying their "Golden Eagle" scope. So far the reviews are pretty good, people seem to like the features, and especially the price. I also see quite a few Sightron III scopes on the line. There are certainly other higher end (price wise) scopes available, as well as more budget minded offerings. The specific features you want and the thickness of your wallet will ultimately point you in the direction of one or two of the available scopes.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
If you meant me, it's Greg, but that was close enough (LOL). I have either NF or Badger alloy rings on all my rifles. I have been very happy with the performance of both (i.e. - strength, straightness, light weight, etc, etc). The main thing for me is to have the right height. There are a number of manufacturers that make quality rings, so you have lots of choices. Although many have their own preferences, I'm not really sure that one brand is noticeably better than another among the top-end manufacturers.
FWIW - I have an F-TR build currently underway and recently started shopping for a scope myself. I was giving strong consideration to trying the new Vortex Golden Eagle. The features and price are very attractive, and the scope has been getting very good reviews so far. All my other scopes are either NF NXS 12-42x56 NP-2DD, or NXS 8-32x56 NP-R1. As I mentioned, NF no longer makes the 12-42x56 scope.
I like the NXS 8-32x56 scopes I have very much, but occasionally want a little higher mag. I have two of them on rifles I rarely shoot past 600 yd, so it doesn't matter much. NF still makes this scope, so that might be a possibility for you if you wouldn't feel limited by 32X upper end mag. To be honest, I could easily get away with using one of tees at 1000 yd because I typically dial down the 12-42X scopes to about 30-35X once the mirage comes up. So the limitation for me is in reality more of a psychological thing. You can't dial in more mag if the scope doesn't have it.
I was recently exceedingly fortunate to win a 50% off certificate from Nightforce in a drawing at the MO State MR Championship. So for slightly less than the cost of the Vortex Golden Eagle, I purchased the NF Competition scope, which is how I resolved the issue of a scope for the new build. In your case, it sounds like you could narrow your focus to a NF Competition (new or used), a NF NXS 12-42X (used only), a NF NXS 8-32X (new or used, if the 32X mag will work for you), a NF BR 12-42X or 8-32X (new or used), the Vortex Golden Eagle (new only), or possibly the Sightron III (new or used). Any one of those would serve you very well, so I would suggest making a list of pros/cons for each, along with the cost. That would probably allow you to cull out a few more choices from the list. Then you can start looking at the Optics forums here and elsewhere for the remaining candidates, to see whether there are any available that are in good condition used. That will likely let you narrow the list even further, down to a few choices. Then you'll just have to choose one and go with it. If you go with a used scope, it may well be that rings also come with. The good news is that you won't go wrong with any of those scopes, so gather some more info, make an informed choice, and get started with confidence. Good luck on the purchase!
FWIW - I have an F-TR build currently underway and recently started shopping for a scope myself. I was giving strong consideration to trying the new Vortex Golden Eagle. The features and price are very attractive, and the scope has been getting very good reviews so far. All my other scopes are either NF NXS 12-42x56 NP-2DD, or NXS 8-32x56 NP-R1. As I mentioned, NF no longer makes the 12-42x56 scope.
I like the NXS 8-32x56 scopes I have very much, but occasionally want a little higher mag. I have two of them on rifles I rarely shoot past 600 yd, so it doesn't matter much. NF still makes this scope, so that might be a possibility for you if you wouldn't feel limited by 32X upper end mag. To be honest, I could easily get away with using one of tees at 1000 yd because I typically dial down the 12-42X scopes to about 30-35X once the mirage comes up. So the limitation for me is in reality more of a psychological thing. You can't dial in more mag if the scope doesn't have it.
I was recently exceedingly fortunate to win a 50% off certificate from Nightforce in a drawing at the MO State MR Championship. So for slightly less than the cost of the Vortex Golden Eagle, I purchased the NF Competition scope, which is how I resolved the issue of a scope for the new build. In your case, it sounds like you could narrow your focus to a NF Competition (new or used), a NF NXS 12-42X (used only), a NF NXS 8-32X (new or used, if the 32X mag will work for you), a NF BR 12-42X or 8-32X (new or used), the Vortex Golden Eagle (new only), or possibly the Sightron III (new or used). Any one of those would serve you very well, so I would suggest making a list of pros/cons for each, along with the cost. That would probably allow you to cull out a few more choices from the list. Then you can start looking at the Optics forums here and elsewhere for the remaining candidates, to see whether there are any available that are in good condition used. That will likely let you narrow the list even further, down to a few choices. Then you'll just have to choose one and go with it. If you go with a used scope, it may well be that rings also come with. The good news is that you won't go wrong with any of those scopes, so gather some more info, make an informed choice, and get started with confidence. Good luck on the purchase!
Greg,
I think that with past experience with Sightron SIII scopes, i am going to pass on them.. in the heat of the moment, it is easy to move the dial too much when clicking wind.. So that will narrow it a bit. My main concern of course is having enough elevation in the mount or rail to ensure that the reticle is in the middle of the tube when at 1K. Knowing that the higher power scopes have a bit more limit in windage. I am only concerned with that iffan (southern word), the offset can not be remedied if you have say no wind zero is 15 moa on one side or the other. So a scope of say 42 MOA.. with that offset already there, will hurt you.
I don't feel that i need a lot of high magnification.. i always hold center anyway.. i am not one for much of the holding off.. i have done it.. but i would rather click it and stick it!
From what i have read, a lot of folks like using the .125 moa click system, but sometimes i feel and wonder if it really is that much needed on a F/TR rifle. I mean if you have to, put a quarter on and hold a quarter, if you ammo is that good! But the nuances in the wind will more than like trip you up.
So, i guess from me bouncing this out there. I think that a NXS just might do the trick. Would you agree?
I think that with past experience with Sightron SIII scopes, i am going to pass on them.. in the heat of the moment, it is easy to move the dial too much when clicking wind.. So that will narrow it a bit. My main concern of course is having enough elevation in the mount or rail to ensure that the reticle is in the middle of the tube when at 1K. Knowing that the higher power scopes have a bit more limit in windage. I am only concerned with that iffan (southern word), the offset can not be remedied if you have say no wind zero is 15 moa on one side or the other. So a scope of say 42 MOA.. with that offset already there, will hurt you.
I don't feel that i need a lot of high magnification.. i always hold center anyway.. i am not one for much of the holding off.. i have done it.. but i would rather click it and stick it!
From what i have read, a lot of folks like using the .125 moa click system, but sometimes i feel and wonder if it really is that much needed on a F/TR rifle. I mean if you have to, put a quarter on and hold a quarter, if you ammo is that good! But the nuances in the wind will more than like trip you up.
So, i guess from me bouncing this out there. I think that a NXS just might do the trick. Would you agree?
I spend most of my F-TR shooting time at 1000 yards. I was going to talk about elevation and so on as specifications that you need to consider, so I'm glad to see you bring that up. With a .308 you will need at least another 16MOA from your 600 yard zero to get to 1000 yards. So total adjustment range comes into play.
I had an NXS 12-42X56 on my rifle, with a 20MOA ramp and using Kelbly rings. I got to 1000 yards with no issues but I knew the scope was not in the middle of its range. I kept it a 42X virtually all the time.
I upgraded to the March 5-50X56 and it came with a 34mm tube and a greater adjustment range, 60MOA for elevation. With the 20 MOA ramp, my 1000 yard zero is still not in the center of the scope (you would need a 30MOA ramp to get closer to center,) but it's not near the end of travel either, so there is no danger of bottoming out or getting the wrong clicks because you are so close to the end.
Using a 30 MOA ramp would make it difficult to get a 300 yard zero, let alone anything at 100 yards, if your scope had 40some MOA in total adjustment.
Also, with respect to dialing for every shot, I think you will probably come to change your mind after a while. You will want to hold on target when the conditions are shifting and for that I suggest you get a simple reticle than will show a horizontal bar very easily. I would also eschew much if any markings on the horizontal as you will want to hold counting rings and for that, you need quality magnification. Anti-cant device is a good thing to have also.
Finally, the main reason I moved from the NXS to the March-X is because 60 is rapidly receding in the rear view mirror of life, I was experiencing more and more difficulty seeing the target and its rings on dark, overcast early morning competitions. The NXS is a dark scope, whereas the March is much brighter. It made a huge difference to my eyes.
I had an NXS 12-42X56 on my rifle, with a 20MOA ramp and using Kelbly rings. I got to 1000 yards with no issues but I knew the scope was not in the middle of its range. I kept it a 42X virtually all the time.
I upgraded to the March 5-50X56 and it came with a 34mm tube and a greater adjustment range, 60MOA for elevation. With the 20 MOA ramp, my 1000 yard zero is still not in the center of the scope (you would need a 30MOA ramp to get closer to center,) but it's not near the end of travel either, so there is no danger of bottoming out or getting the wrong clicks because you are so close to the end.
Using a 30 MOA ramp would make it difficult to get a 300 yard zero, let alone anything at 100 yards, if your scope had 40some MOA in total adjustment.
Also, with respect to dialing for every shot, I think you will probably come to change your mind after a while. You will want to hold on target when the conditions are shifting and for that I suggest you get a simple reticle than will show a horizontal bar very easily. I would also eschew much if any markings on the horizontal as you will want to hold counting rings and for that, you need quality magnification. Anti-cant device is a good thing to have also.
Finally, the main reason I moved from the NXS to the March-X is because 60 is rapidly receding in the rear view mirror of life, I was experiencing more and more difficulty seeing the target and its rings on dark, overcast early morning competitions. The NXS is a dark scope, whereas the March is much brighter. It made a huge difference to my eyes.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
All my NF 12-42s sit on 20 MOA rails. I have had no issues zeroing at 100 yd, or reaching 1000 yd with the elevation travel available. I have heard from people not quite being able to zero at 100 with a 20 MOA, but they seem to be the exception. My .308s take ~30 MOA elevation from a 100 yd zero to reach 1000 yd, my .223 about 28 MOA and change. I have not had any issues with the scopes when the elevation turrets are dialed this amount. I understand that that optical performance can degrade and issues arise at the extreme end of travel of the reticle in the tube. I have never found that taking that same idea to an extreme and keeping the reticle very close to optically centered is any kind of advantage. However, the reticle was designed to be moved. As long as I don't push that movement all the way to the absolute very end of the travel, my scopes have worked fine for me and I am satisfied with their optical clarity. If you want to keep the reticle optically centered, you might want a 30 MOA rail instead of 20 MOA.
Windage is another issue. My personal issue with NF windage turrets has to do with their indicator markings. Mine go up to 5; 1L, 2L, etc., on one side, 1R, 2R, etc. on the other side. This is presumably to let you keep track of whether you're dialing off left or right. In most cases it's not an issue at all. However, on the occasions where I have had to dial more than 5.0 MOA in either direction (most common at 1000 yd, as opposed to shorter range), it is very, very easy for my lizard brain to get lost on the dial, once I've twirled it past 5. My understanding is that NF sells replacement knobs that go from 0-9, which would likely work better for me, but I haven't tried to get them.
IMO, you could certainly use a scope with 0.25 MOA turret click values. I don't think it would wreck your score or anything like that. However, I would never personally choose to use 0.25 MOA turrets. The movement on the target for a single click is simply too much for me and I much prefer the finer increment of the 0.125 turrets. Plenty of times a single .25 MOA click would likely put you in pretty much the same POI, but across the X-ring on the other side. I have several NF scopes with mil reticles and turrets. Had I not started shooting F-Class, I likely would have stayed with mils. But for F-Class I prefer the finer increment turrets.
I have been very happy with my NXS scopes. The NXS scopes are tough as nails and mine have been very reliable. I have always found that NF glass is "good". Not the absolute "best", but pretty good, more than enough for my needs. I've heard a lot of people state they thought the NF Competition scope glass was much better than the NXS, but to my eyes it's about the same. So what your eyes really "need" as far as glass quality is something only you can answer. The reason I was looking at the Vortex Golden Eagle previously had more to do with weight and cost. The rifle the new Competition scope is going on is heavy enough relative to my other rifles that making weight is an issue. The Vortex and the Competition are both lighter than the NXS scopes. On my other rifles, making weight isn't an issue. So one consideration about the NXS scopes is that they're heavier. If weight hadn't been an issue, I would have purchased a used 12-42x56 NP-2DD to put on it in a heartbeat.
Windage is another issue. My personal issue with NF windage turrets has to do with their indicator markings. Mine go up to 5; 1L, 2L, etc., on one side, 1R, 2R, etc. on the other side. This is presumably to let you keep track of whether you're dialing off left or right. In most cases it's not an issue at all. However, on the occasions where I have had to dial more than 5.0 MOA in either direction (most common at 1000 yd, as opposed to shorter range), it is very, very easy for my lizard brain to get lost on the dial, once I've twirled it past 5. My understanding is that NF sells replacement knobs that go from 0-9, which would likely work better for me, but I haven't tried to get them.
IMO, you could certainly use a scope with 0.25 MOA turret click values. I don't think it would wreck your score or anything like that. However, I would never personally choose to use 0.25 MOA turrets. The movement on the target for a single click is simply too much for me and I much prefer the finer increment of the 0.125 turrets. Plenty of times a single .25 MOA click would likely put you in pretty much the same POI, but across the X-ring on the other side. I have several NF scopes with mil reticles and turrets. Had I not started shooting F-Class, I likely would have stayed with mils. But for F-Class I prefer the finer increment turrets.
I have been very happy with my NXS scopes. The NXS scopes are tough as nails and mine have been very reliable. I have always found that NF glass is "good". Not the absolute "best", but pretty good, more than enough for my needs. I've heard a lot of people state they thought the NF Competition scope glass was much better than the NXS, but to my eyes it's about the same. So what your eyes really "need" as far as glass quality is something only you can answer. The reason I was looking at the Vortex Golden Eagle previously had more to do with weight and cost. The rifle the new Competition scope is going on is heavy enough relative to my other rifles that making weight is an issue. The Vortex and the Competition are both lighter than the NXS scopes. On my other rifles, making weight isn't an issue. So one consideration about the NXS scopes is that they're heavier. If weight hadn't been an issue, I would have purchased a used 12-42x56 NP-2DD to put on it in a heartbeat.
Deny,
If my memory serves me right, the mount rail on the stock is already at just a tad plus of 20 MOA. As for dialing vs. holding off.. i will just say. It is what i am used to doing..
Let me first say, twisting quarter MOA is what i am used to moving.. it is a natural in my head.. If you think about only an 1/8 or a quarter, your going to shoot it unconsciously, so in essence, i put a quarter on and only think an 1/8th, guess what.. what you see a lot of folks do is put wind on and then in their mind put more wind on..
I like the MOAR reticle, but it can also be rather busy. I like that NP-2DD very much. I think that it is just right for allowing you to see the target fuller, see the mirage without all that clutter and you should be able to hold waterline very well. Concentrate on the dot and let it rip the molecules in the air!
You all are helping me make a wise decision very carefully, but at least i think that we have the reticle nailed down for sure now.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
0.25 MOA turrets won't kill you, if that's what you prefer. Being comfortable and confident behind the rifle is half the battle, IMO. I like the NXS/BR NP-2DD reticle much better than the similar one available in the newer Competition scopes. For that reason, I went with the fine crosshair + aiming dot in my new Competition scope. I generally use the target scoring rings to estimate scope adjustments, rather than any reticle/hashmark subtensions, so I think this reticle will work just fine for me. I think you're asking all the right questions and defining your specific requirements, so I'm sure you'll end up with a scope that you'll be happy with.
Yes, that is more than half the battle. Also the regiment that your used to doing. I will consider the .125 movement. But i would hate to put on a minute, only to realize later that it was just a half..
I just want to say thank you for taking the time to help me confirm as to which scope that i will be looking at, i have made a decision and will be following that lead..
“Gary” is giving you some really good information. I hesitated before posting the following, mainly because I’m too tired to get into an argument with someone who has been shooting for a very long time and is now rolling into F-class, with lots of preconceived notions (most of them good, and some bad ones.) I decided to post this anyway, for what it’s worth.
First off, I am not familiar with a setup where the 20MOA ramp is on the stock of the rifle, so I will defer to you on that one. The ramps I am familiar with are either built in on top of the action such as is the case for my Kelbly F-class Panda action, or they are add-on ramps, either screwed onto the top of the receiver or maybe a Picatinny ramp that sits atop an existing rail. I am very familiar with the Burris Zee rings with their various inserts that allow you to create a cant in your scope with just the rings. I just don't remember seeing one that goes on the stock. At any rate, I think you have that covered.
Let's talk a little more about the 1/4 Vs 1/8 MOA click thing. The F-class center is essentially the regular MR63, MR1, LR1 target but with an added ring in the X-ring. Then all the values are pushed up by 1, or back depending on your POV. So the new X-ring in the center is 1/4 the size of the X-ring with which you are so familiar. The 10-ring in F-class is the X-ring of the regular target, the F-class 9-ring is your 10-ring and so on. So, in essence the rings are all 1/4 the size of the corresponding ones on the regular targets.
F-class is a game of intense precision compared to the Palma, High Power, Service Rifle disciplines. Everything that you are used to will be incredibly valuable going forward, but the precision required just went up by a factor of 4. So keep that in mind in your choice of adjustment on the scope.
You are coming into F-class with skills that will be very valuable but you will find the competition very hard if you do not adapt to use the equipment properly. I came from a Palma, High Power, Service Rifle background where I learned to shoot center and adjust the sights for every shot according to the feedbacks from the prior shot, the flags, and the trees and so on. I had to shoot center because that's what the aiming black was all about. I needed to get the same sight picture shot after shot, trusting my wind calls and my sights.
In F-Class, you will need to be much more surgical in your shot placement. I seriously doubt anyone past a certain level of performance is twisting knobs on the scope for every shot; we hold off on the target and we can get very precise. I sometimes will add or subtract a click on the elevation knob during a string, if I detect that I am drifting low or high. I don't really remember the last time I made an adjustment for windage on the scope once I had started a string. I mean, I've done it, and will do it again in the future, I'm just not remembering the last time. I'm sure it was a time when there was a drastic (read massive) change in the wind direction or strength. I hold out to the edge of the black frequently and even further sometimes. When I'm holding off target, I reconsider my decision. This is why it's important to have an anti-cant device and use it and be thankful for the long horizontal line in the scope.
The ability to hold on the target is enhanced or inhibited by the scope you use. You need enough magnification to be able to see the rings and be able to place the fine crosshair or target dot precisely on the target. Quality magnification comes at a price, as you well know. The Nightforce 12-42X56 are fine scopes and my NXS served me very well, but it had been lacking in darker lighting conditions. The objective size was fine, but I think there is a bit more degradation of light transmission than one expects from such a fine scope. I think the BR version has better light transmission, but one really needs instruments to measure that properly. It may be due to the fact the NXS has a side focus whereas the BR has an AO, thus less internal lenses.
NF discontinued the NSX 12-42X56, and mine now sits safely in its box after I bought a March-X 5-50X56. I decided against the new NF Competition because the front objective is 52mm, down from 56 for the NXS (and the March-X.) I was looking for more light, not less.
The March-X has ED glass, which stands for Extra-low Dispersion. I believe the Competition from NF does also, but since its objective is smaller, it starts off behind the March-X right away and when it comes to light, you can’t make up what you do not have, without electronics.
The ED glass is one or two elements in the myriad internal lenses that will reduce or eliminate the chromatic aberration inherent in optical devices. This is also called color fringing, because without ED (or fluorite glass,) the lenses are not able to focus the varying wavelengths in the image coming from the objective, on the exact same focal plane so the color demarcation is not as crisp as it should be. What this means to an F-class shooter is that when you’re focused on the target at 1000 yards using a 40X scope, the rings are not perfectly clean and seem to have a little haze. With an ED or fluorite glass element in the scope, the lines are crisp. Of course, the mirage will temper the difference by making everything wavy. This is much more apparent at shorter ranges, and the rings are so much smaller at 600,500 and 300. At any distances, the added crispness of the rings make it easier to place the target dot close to a ring, and we do that.
Finally, I don’t know if you have looked at a target with one of these high-magnification scopes. It’s a totally different picture than what I was used to when I shot Palma or Service Rifle. It’s higher magnification than my spotting scope of yore or even the one I use now. My Kowa is fixed at 27X, but my rifle is usually at 50X in summertime. At 1000 yards, I see my target and most of the ones on either side of mine. At 600 yards, I see my target and a little of the ones on either side. At 300 yards, all I see is the aiming black and some of the white around it. When the X-ring is only 1.47 inches in diameter, you want to be VERY surgical in your placements.
You will be looking through that scope a lot and it really helps to have quality glass to reduce eye strain. Another aspect that is critical is reliable and repeatable clicks. Some scopes are better at this than others.
Today I shot a 1000 yard match with two strings of 20. I was running at 50X and at the end of the first match, I realized that I had my sunglasses on my nose. I was wondering why it was darker than usual. I had left my other glasses in the car, so I just went ahead and finished. I was holding between 0 and 2 lines left during that match.
Before starting the second match an hour later, I was looking at the flags and at that time estimated that I would now be holding 3 lines right. A fairly big change from the earlier match. I got behind the gun, held 3 lines right and was rewarded with a 9 at 12 o’clock. I had called the wind perfectly, but the temperature had gone up along with the humidity, which means the bullets were flying faster in the thinner air. That would have been a 10 on the regular target, just above the X-ring. I dropped some elevation on the scope and the next two shots where Xs, holding 3 lines right.
This is a different regimen to what you are used to, but that is what I have transitioned to in F-class and I don’t think I’m alone in that respect. I don’t do MOA except for gross adjustments or putting in some windage. I don’t use wind speed, even though I can figure out the speed from the flags. No, all I do now is number of rings from center depending on what the flags look like. On the outer rings, I will be more surgical, with quarters and halves and so on.
When we shoot team, that’s how I communicate the adjustments to the shooters and that’s what they hold. There is no time to make scope adjustments during these strings, and they will screw you up. Just wait until the first time you wind a scope the wrong way. It happens to everybody.
Anyway, I just wanted to pass along that information. It’s worth every penny you paid for it and feel free to disregard it.
First off, I am not familiar with a setup where the 20MOA ramp is on the stock of the rifle, so I will defer to you on that one. The ramps I am familiar with are either built in on top of the action such as is the case for my Kelbly F-class Panda action, or they are add-on ramps, either screwed onto the top of the receiver or maybe a Picatinny ramp that sits atop an existing rail. I am very familiar with the Burris Zee rings with their various inserts that allow you to create a cant in your scope with just the rings. I just don't remember seeing one that goes on the stock. At any rate, I think you have that covered.
Let's talk a little more about the 1/4 Vs 1/8 MOA click thing. The F-class center is essentially the regular MR63, MR1, LR1 target but with an added ring in the X-ring. Then all the values are pushed up by 1, or back depending on your POV. So the new X-ring in the center is 1/4 the size of the X-ring with which you are so familiar. The 10-ring in F-class is the X-ring of the regular target, the F-class 9-ring is your 10-ring and so on. So, in essence the rings are all 1/4 the size of the corresponding ones on the regular targets.
F-class is a game of intense precision compared to the Palma, High Power, Service Rifle disciplines. Everything that you are used to will be incredibly valuable going forward, but the precision required just went up by a factor of 4. So keep that in mind in your choice of adjustment on the scope.
You are coming into F-class with skills that will be very valuable but you will find the competition very hard if you do not adapt to use the equipment properly. I came from a Palma, High Power, Service Rifle background where I learned to shoot center and adjust the sights for every shot according to the feedbacks from the prior shot, the flags, and the trees and so on. I had to shoot center because that's what the aiming black was all about. I needed to get the same sight picture shot after shot, trusting my wind calls and my sights.
In F-Class, you will need to be much more surgical in your shot placement. I seriously doubt anyone past a certain level of performance is twisting knobs on the scope for every shot; we hold off on the target and we can get very precise. I sometimes will add or subtract a click on the elevation knob during a string, if I detect that I am drifting low or high. I don't really remember the last time I made an adjustment for windage on the scope once I had started a string. I mean, I've done it, and will do it again in the future, I'm just not remembering the last time. I'm sure it was a time when there was a drastic (read massive) change in the wind direction or strength. I hold out to the edge of the black frequently and even further sometimes. When I'm holding off target, I reconsider my decision. This is why it's important to have an anti-cant device and use it and be thankful for the long horizontal line in the scope.
The ability to hold on the target is enhanced or inhibited by the scope you use. You need enough magnification to be able to see the rings and be able to place the fine crosshair or target dot precisely on the target. Quality magnification comes at a price, as you well know. The Nightforce 12-42X56 are fine scopes and my NXS served me very well, but it had been lacking in darker lighting conditions. The objective size was fine, but I think there is a bit more degradation of light transmission than one expects from such a fine scope. I think the BR version has better light transmission, but one really needs instruments to measure that properly. It may be due to the fact the NXS has a side focus whereas the BR has an AO, thus less internal lenses.
NF discontinued the NSX 12-42X56, and mine now sits safely in its box after I bought a March-X 5-50X56. I decided against the new NF Competition because the front objective is 52mm, down from 56 for the NXS (and the March-X.) I was looking for more light, not less.
The March-X has ED glass, which stands for Extra-low Dispersion. I believe the Competition from NF does also, but since its objective is smaller, it starts off behind the March-X right away and when it comes to light, you can’t make up what you do not have, without electronics.
The ED glass is one or two elements in the myriad internal lenses that will reduce or eliminate the chromatic aberration inherent in optical devices. This is also called color fringing, because without ED (or fluorite glass,) the lenses are not able to focus the varying wavelengths in the image coming from the objective, on the exact same focal plane so the color demarcation is not as crisp as it should be. What this means to an F-class shooter is that when you’re focused on the target at 1000 yards using a 40X scope, the rings are not perfectly clean and seem to have a little haze. With an ED or fluorite glass element in the scope, the lines are crisp. Of course, the mirage will temper the difference by making everything wavy. This is much more apparent at shorter ranges, and the rings are so much smaller at 600,500 and 300. At any distances, the added crispness of the rings make it easier to place the target dot close to a ring, and we do that.
Finally, I don’t know if you have looked at a target with one of these high-magnification scopes. It’s a totally different picture than what I was used to when I shot Palma or Service Rifle. It’s higher magnification than my spotting scope of yore or even the one I use now. My Kowa is fixed at 27X, but my rifle is usually at 50X in summertime. At 1000 yards, I see my target and most of the ones on either side of mine. At 600 yards, I see my target and a little of the ones on either side. At 300 yards, all I see is the aiming black and some of the white around it. When the X-ring is only 1.47 inches in diameter, you want to be VERY surgical in your placements.
You will be looking through that scope a lot and it really helps to have quality glass to reduce eye strain. Another aspect that is critical is reliable and repeatable clicks. Some scopes are better at this than others.
Today I shot a 1000 yard match with two strings of 20. I was running at 50X and at the end of the first match, I realized that I had my sunglasses on my nose. I was wondering why it was darker than usual. I had left my other glasses in the car, so I just went ahead and finished. I was holding between 0 and 2 lines left during that match.
Before starting the second match an hour later, I was looking at the flags and at that time estimated that I would now be holding 3 lines right. A fairly big change from the earlier match. I got behind the gun, held 3 lines right and was rewarded with a 9 at 12 o’clock. I had called the wind perfectly, but the temperature had gone up along with the humidity, which means the bullets were flying faster in the thinner air. That would have been a 10 on the regular target, just above the X-ring. I dropped some elevation on the scope and the next two shots where Xs, holding 3 lines right.
This is a different regimen to what you are used to, but that is what I have transitioned to in F-class and I don’t think I’m alone in that respect. I don’t do MOA except for gross adjustments or putting in some windage. I don’t use wind speed, even though I can figure out the speed from the flags. No, all I do now is number of rings from center depending on what the flags look like. On the outer rings, I will be more surgical, with quarters and halves and so on.
When we shoot team, that’s how I communicate the adjustments to the shooters and that’s what they hold. There is no time to make scope adjustments during these strings, and they will screw you up. Just wait until the first time you wind a scope the wrong way. It happens to everybody.
Anyway, I just wanted to pass along that information. It’s worth every penny you paid for it and feel free to disregard it.
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