OGIVE Distance

[Rick Ratzlaff]

I was trying real hard to fine-tune my 243. I thot I was going to move up in the league toward "High-End" shooters. :-(

Using a Redding Big Boss ll, and Redding Type S bushing dies. Cases were all trimmed and very close. My focus was OGIVE length to be very consistent. Bla Bla Bla.

When I'm seating the projectile, my first stroke barely starts it. The I sping the case 1/4 turn, I rep[eat 2 more times so I push the projectile 4 times very gently. OCD

						ES	STDV
Test 1	2.2105	2.2075	2.2095	2.2080	2.2105	0.0030	0.0014
Test 2	2.2080	2.2105	2.2100	2.2105	2.2060	0.0045	0.0020
Test 3	2.2090	2.2095	2.2090	2.2105	2.2085	0.0020	0.0008
Test 4	2.2085	2.2105	2.2085	2.2080	2.2070	0.0035	0.0013
Test 5	2.2065	2.2080	2.2055	2.2070	2.2085	0.0030	0.0012
Test 6	2.2080	2.2085	2.2070	2.2065	2.1955	0.0130	0.0054
Test 7	2.2080	2.2030	2.2085	2.2045		0.0055	0.0027
Test 8	2.2060	2.2065	2.2060			0.0005	0.0003
Test 9	2.2075	2.2085	2.2050			0.0035	0.0018

I'm shooting a Viper Gen 2, so I wanted to be really OCD. The tests 7-9 I expect to be over pressure so I quit loading 5 rounds.

I'm ready to pull the rounds, and reseat. Very disappointed. How would youz rate the variable lengths? Thanks

 

[Fclassfool]

You sorting your bullets by BTO?

 

[Rick Ratzlaff]

Not yet

 

[358WCF]

There's data about the sizer, trim length, & your seating procedure, but no mention of the type of seating die. Does the seating stem touch the bullet tip or somewhere on the ogive?

 

[rwj]

Does the seating stem touch the bullet tip or somewhere on the ogive?

Most seating stems contact nearer to the bullet tip than a comparator insert that is designed to contact near the ogive. Any variation in bullet diameter where the seating stem contacts will be measured as length variation by the comparator.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I was trying real hard to fine-tune my 243. I thot I was going to move up in the league toward "High-End" shooters. :-(

Using a Redding Big Boss ll, and Redding Type S bushing dies. Cases were all trimmed and very close. My focus was OGIVE length to be very consistent. Bla Bla Bla.

When I'm seating the projectile, my first stroke barely starts it. The I sping the case 1/4 turn, I rep[eat 2 more times so I push the projectile 4 times very gently. OCD

						ES	STDV
Test 1	2.2105	2.2075	2.2095	2.2080	2.2105	0.0030	0.0014
Test 2	2.2080	2.2105	2.2100	2.2105	2.2060	0.0045	0.0020
Test 3	2.2090	2.2095	2.2090	2.2105	2.2085	0.0020	0.0008
Test 4	2.2085	2.2105	2.2085	2.2080	2.2070	0.0035	0.0013
Test 5	2.2065	2.2080	2.2055	2.2070	2.2085	0.0030	0.0012
Test 6	2.2080	2.2085	2.2070	2.2065	2.1955	0.0130	0.0054
Test 7	2.2080	2.2030	2.2085	2.2045		0.0055	0.0027
Test 8	2.2060	2.2065	2.2060			0.0005	0.0003
Test 9	2.2075	2.2085	2.2050			0.0035	0.0018

I'm shooting a Viper Gen 2, so I wanted to be really OCD. The tests 7-9 I expect to be over pressure so I quit loading 5 rounds.

I'm ready to pull the rounds, and reseat. Very disappointed. How would youz rate the variable lengths? Thanks

How about more information about your brass? Like:

How many times have they been fired?
Has the brass been annealed and if so, how often?
What "neck tension" are you sizing the brass to?
What bullet are you seating?

For me to get very consistent seating, I anneal my cases after every firing and size to .001 to .002 depending on the brass I'm using.

Also, I sort my bullets by BTO. . . BUT, the part of the ogive I sort by is where my seating stem touches the ogive. I'm after a consistent seating where the base of the bullet is the same distance into the case, which is controlled by where the seating stem makes contact with the bullet's ogive. There's some difference between the seating stem contact point and where a standard comparator insert makes contact with the ogive. I don't care about any variance where the junction is at the bearing surface and ogive since variance in jump that might be there is a non-issue and has very little effect on SD's or ES's

 

[Rick Ratzlaff]

There's data about the sizer, trim length, & your seating procedure, but no mention of the type of seating die. Does the seating stem touch the bullet tip or somewhere on the ogive?

Good Question. I'm using the Seating Micrometer Die that came in the kit. I assumed it would be OPK. And using Berger 95 grain projectiles.

 

[Rick Ratzlaff]

Fired maybe 2 times. Winchester and Barns brass. Never anneled. I'm not that OCD, YET

 

[Rick Ratzlaff]

This die has a sleeve that moves up when seating. I don't know how to tell where its hitting the bullet.

 

[Rick Ratzlaff]

How about more information about your brass? Like:

How many times have they been fired?
Has the brass been annealed and if so, how often?
What "neck tension" are you sizing the brass to?
What bullet are you seating?

For me to get very consistent seating, I anneal my cases after every firing and size to .001 to .002 depending on the brass I'm using.

Also, I sort my bullets by BTO. . . BUT, the part of the ogive I sort by is where my seating stem touches the ogive. I'm after a consistent seating where the base of the bullet is the same distance into the case, which is controlled by where the seating stem makes contact with the bullet's ogive. There's some difference between the seating stem contact point and where a standard comparator insert makes contact with the ogive. I don't care about any variance where the junction is at the bearing surface and ogive since variance in jump that might be there is a non-issue and has very little effect on SD's or ES's

View attachment 1624897

Your diagram shows a lot of projectile under the OGIVE heading. I have always thot that OGIVE was 1 spot that touched the rifling.

 

[Bc'z]

This die has a sleeve that moves up when seating. I don't know how to tell where its hitting the bullet.

You probably need a VLD stem, current stem may be bottoming out on meplat giving you inconsistent measurements.
You can drill and lap your current stem and or bed it with JBweld and a projectile.
Try sorting by overall length, this will help with variations from ogive to meplat.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Your diagram shows a lot of projectile under the OGIVE heading. I have always thot that OGIVE was 1 spot that touched the rifling.

Nope. It's at the end of the bearing surface that touches the rifling and gets engraved.

But I guess one might argue where the bearing surface ends and the ogive begins.

 

[Rick Ratzlaff]

I agree. The drawing CGIVE bracket almost hits the meplat.

 

[Rick Ratzlaff]

I sent my data to Redding and didn't like the brief answer. 1 sentence. They said "to check projectile OD".

 

[Doom]

Your diagram shows a lot of projectile under the OGIVE heading. I have always thot that OGIVE was 1 spot that touched the rifling.

The ogive is the portion of the bullet from bearing surface to the tip. Like many things we misuse the term. SAAMI def:

OGIVE​

The curved portion of a bullet forward of the bearing surface.​

 

[Straightshooter1]

Fired maybe 2 times. Winchester and Barns brass. Never anneled. I'm not that OCD, YET

The harder the brass gets as it's fired, the more it's going to resist expanding. This results in more inconsistent seating as it work hardens from the brass movement being fired and sized.

 

[Rick Ratzlaff]

I'll right them and ask about a VLD Stem. That makes sense to me.

 

[Lone Hunter]

Fired maybe 2 times. Winchester and Barns brass. Never anneled. I'm not that OCD, YET

I would stick with One brand of brass. Do not mix them. Ask me how I know this.lol

 

[Rick Ratzlaff]

Thanks Straightshooter. I didn't want to hear that logic. But I wondered.

 

[Lone Hunter]

I'll right them and ask about a VLD Stem. That makes sense to me.

I had to get a VLD seating stem for my Berger bullets. In 6mm and .308 diameter