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Bullet Base to Ogive Variation

Some reloaders are very concerned about bearing surface length. I don't worry about it too much for a number of reasons. For example, every time we do a seating depth test, the amount of bullet bearing surface gripped by the neck changes by whatever seating depth [length] increment is used in the test, even if the bullets used were all essentially dimensionally identical. Nonetheless, we use the results without concern that a few thousandths' difference of bearing surface in the neck completely undermined the test results. Likewise, when we seat bullets with varying bearing surface length to a uniform seating depth, the amount of bullet shank seated in the neck also changes. If one is involved in a discipline where a few thousandths difference in bearing surface/neck wall contact can make a difference that they can actually shoot, then they probably need to be concerned about it. I freely admit that I cannot shoot the difference of a merely a few thousandths' bearing surface/neck wall contact, so I don't overly concern myself with trying to length-sort bullets by BTO. If one shoots in a discipline where it does matter, have at it, but I would point out that the OP is talking about factory second bullets here. There is a limit to how far I would go with sorting factory seconds, just because.

On the other hand, I point bullets, so length-sorting bullets by OAL is one way to facilitate obtaining more uniform points. In my hands, the bullets I use (mostly Berger) seem to have pretty uniform BTO dimensions, with most of the OAL variance residing in the nose region of the bullet. For that reason, sorting these bullets by OAL is more or less analogous to sorting them by nose length. For that reason, sorting bullets by OAL can improve seating depth consistency, which I believe to be very important. As shown in the cartoon (below), there is a relationship between what I refer to as the "two critical contact points". One of these critical contact points is farther out on the ogive toward the meplat where the seating die stem contacts and pushes the bullet into the case. The other is the point at which the caliper inserts seats on the ogive just above the bearing surface. Variance in the distance between these two critical contact points will usually mean comparable variance in seating depth as measured by cartridge base-to-ogive (CBTO).

Note that both of these critical contact points lie within the nose region of the bullet. What that means is that by sorting bullets BTO will have no effect whatsoever on length variance between the two critical contact points, as they both lie outside the BTO dimension. Thus, sorting bullets by BTO will not improve seating depth consistency. Regardless, folks can sort by bullets or anything else by whatever method they believe works best for them. What I would suggest to the OP would be to sort the factory seconds by whatever the desired method is, then use each bullet sorting group individually when reloading. In other words, sort the bullets however desired, but don't ever mix them back together when reloading and/or shooting. With a sufficient number of sorted bullets, it is usually not too difficult to use a single sorted group for a single string of fire or one match, perhaps even an entire match. One can always switch to another sorting group for additional strings or matches, but I would generally try to choose an adjacent sorting group whenever possible, just to keep variance to a minimum. I would also suggest to the OP that it might be worth testing two different bullet sorting groups, preferably two groups that actually have a reasonable length variance between them (i.e. testing two extremes), side-by-side, so that it can be determined whether the length difference is one that can actually be measured on the target. If there is no major difference on the target, perhaps it is not worth the effort to length sort the bullets.
Thank you for all of the thoughts. I appreciate them. I try to learn something new every day and this site is a great place to learn. I don’t usually sort by base to ogive. But I did use that measurement along with a couple more to help try to identify what indeed made that batch of bullets “Seconds”. The variation just got me thinking. Im generally not a “seconds” type of guy. Because if nothing else, the word “Seconds” creates doubt. Which just brought up another thought. If a company knowingly put the word “Seconds” on boxes of absolutely perfect projectiles from every aspect, what effect would it have on a shooter? Assuming of course the shooter had no idea the bullets were perfect. I bet the results would be quite interesting And I’d sure like to read the comments.
If my intentions are to make the most accurate load I can possibly produce, I make a lot more effort to eliminate variables. It certainly is important to know which of those variables have the most Impact. My son tells me I’m far to anal about accuracy. even when it doesn’t much matter. He‘ll say “Why do you need to shoot sub .3 groups to bust watermelons at 100 yards. I tell him 1. Confidence. 2. I’ve never heard anyone complain about a bullet being too accurate.
3. It matters to me
Keep it coming, I’m enjoying the comments
 
Thank you for all of the thoughts. I appreciate them. I try to learn something new every day and this site is a great place to learn. I don’t usually sort by base to ogive. But I did use that measurement along with a couple more to help try to identify what indeed made that batch of bullets “Seconds”. The variation just got me thinking. Im generally not a “seconds” type of guy. Because if nothing else, the word “Seconds” creates doubt. Which just brought up another thought. If a company knowingly put the word “Seconds” on boxes of absolutely perfect projectiles from every aspect, what effect would it have on a shooter? Assuming of course the shooter had no idea the bullets were perfect. I bet the results would be quite interesting And I’d sure like to read the comments.
If my intentions are to make the most accurate load I can possibly produce, I make a lot more effort to eliminate variables. It certainly is important to know which of those variables have the most Impact. My son tells me I’m far to anal about accuracy. even when it doesn’t much matter. He‘ll say “Why do you need to shoot sub .3 groups to bust watermelons at 100 yards. I tell him 1. Confidence. 2. I’ve never heard anyone complain about a bullet being too accurate.
3. It matters to me
Keep it coming, I’m enjoying the comments
There is nothing at all wrong with using "seconds", especially in today's world of expensive and hard-to-find components. As long as you can get them to perform to the desired specification, it's a great idea. You might consider a few different sorting approaches based on your findings, and then directly compare the extremes (i.e. Hi/Lo) from each of the sorting group to see whether you can detect a difference in precision using an otherwise identical load. If one sort group performs better than another, you will have identified a good approach for getting the most out of them. Best of luck with it!
 
Please be conscious that different types of bullet sorting might be valid for different lots of bullets or different brands. We may test and find no difference and assume that is the same for all bullets and calibers. My experience tells to be cautious. We are dealing with many fine details that are difficult to truly isolate and test across multiple calibers and bullet types.
 
There is nothing at all wrong with using "seconds", especially in today's world of expensive and hard-to-find components. As long as you can get them to perform to the desired specification, it's a great idea. You might consider a few different sorting approaches based on your findings, and then directly compare the extremes (i.e. Hi/Lo) from each of the sorting group to see whether you can detect a difference in precision using an otherwise identical load. If one sort group performs better than another, you will have identified a good approach for getting the most out of them. Best of luck with it!
Certainly, fits right into my experimental nature. I have some sorts in mind. And some experimentation to do. Y’all’s advice has helped narrow that down a bit.
 
Please be conscious that different types of bullet sorting might be valid for different lots of bullets or different brands. We may test and find no difference and assume that is the same for all bullets and calibers. My experience tells to be cautious. We are dealing with many fine details that are difficult to truly isolate and test across multiple calibers and bullet types.
What I really like to do, in a perfect world, but I try. Is find out what the rifle likes and that hopefully fits my expectations. Then I’ll go buy enough of that powder, primer and bullet in the same lot to outlast the barrel. Unfortunately, that is a whole lot harder than it used to be.
I’m also figuring out that if I spend my money on a better barrel, trigger, action, and stock, I spend a whole lot less money and time in load development. Pretty simple right. But I’ve also shot rifles that really shouldn’t shoot nearly as well as they do. But to get them to do that takes me a whole lot more time and load development. The experimentation can pay off, sometimes.
 
I use seconds only to fire form brass. I do not practice with junk, because it could disturb my match shooting. I always practice for a match, like I am in the actual match.
Do not expect precision out of seconds, no one else does or you would not be buying them cheap.
 
To eliminate some of the variation in ogive difference, when seating.
I Finish seating bullets for my 223, using a 204 FL die, with the spindle removed.
So my first step, is to use a regular 223 seating die, and set it, to seat long.

Next I set the 204 die. It will leave a very slight, ring mark at the ogive of the bullet.

I have no way to confirm that this actually makes a difference.

But it improves the consistency of my BTO, and therefore consistent seating depth.
 
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