NRA Seeks Host For 2016 & 2017 F-Class Nationals

[Steve Blair]

Or Raton. I want to see ranges in other parts of the country. I've never shot at Lodi but I've heard great things about it. I want to go to Butner. You can only take driving to Phoenix just so many times.......

[br]
Gee, Dean, it's not that hard. You pack the Suburban, get on the freeway, set cruise control on 75 and wait six hours.

 

[XTR]

Oak Ridge has 25 firing points, but we don't have a 500 yard line and the place lacks parking for a really big turnout.

If mid range switched to 600 yards only it could be done there, again, as long as the parking supported it. I'm not sure where the parking would become a serious issue, probably around 100 shooters. If you looked at the attendance at Camp Perry this yr I don't think mid range would out grow it in the near term. (though it's ideally located for a huge chunk of the US shooters) I think we hosted about 80 at the long range regional this yr and it worked fine, and I think the parking situation is better for 600 than 1000.

I could get behind removing 300 from the mid range championship. The lack of cleans at 300 is a little surprising, but almost nobody drops more than 3. It's an X count stage, and that is to some extent dependent on how liberal your puller is. Shooting F class at 300 the X ring becomes a guess by the time you shoot the first 10 into the target. The last 10 pretty much all go through pasters. If we are really going to keep shooting 300 in F class we need to get a target face with 4 centers and shoot 5 on each one.

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

The MRFCNC was never a topic at the meeting, and now it's become a big one.

Why must the MR and LR be back to back and at the same club, and why must a club agree to host for two years?

We should be able to continue to run the MR and LR separately, and rotate them independently of each other.

What prevents that from being possible?

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

Perhaps we should consider shooting only 600 yards during a mid -range Championships? What say you all?

I'd agree with this, Larry. If the thought process is the back is the hardest, then 600 it should be…

Not to mention it would make it much easier on the host range pit crew not to have to prepare as many targets, and the shooters not to have to swap the targets all the time.

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

There is also an issue with going to 5-6 relays that I am not sure anyone is considering, and that is the 20 shot match requirement.

When we ran 6 relays in 2011 in Lodi, those were all 15 shot matches. We were done by 3-4 each day and they were fun days.

I don't remember the exact rotation, but if you add a 5th relay, and run 20 shot strings, just how much time is that going to add to a day? 2 hours? That becomes a looong day.

 

[XTR]

Even Raton ran 6 relays with 3x15 shot matches on days one and two and 2x20 shots on the last day.

Sounds like they are trying to make it impossible to host.

I really liked the 6 relay routine at Raton. You got a chance to stop and breath, and maybe grab some lunch.

I really think we should try to get MR and LR as potential separate venues.

 

[Dos XX]

It might be interesting to know what ranges are interested in actually hosting the following:

MR separate / needs to have 25 firing points?
LR separate / needs to have 40 firing points?
MR/LR combined / needs to have ? firing points?

Are we assuming a lot of places want to do it and can do it?

Rick brought up a point in another thread about assuming the Bald Eagle Rifle Club will run a LR nationals. Will they?

 

[Bill S]

I like the idea of separating. If separated the list of clubs that can accommodate the MR is longer.

 

[suberjc]

Eric,
I agree with you for L-R.
Mid-range didn't come to the fore until 600 was removed from the FCN's. Then everyone clamored for a mid-range championship. I see nothing wrong with limiting the MR Nationals to 600 yards. Effendude should be happy with no 500 required on his range .

One item not thought about much is the target face problem at 300 yards. 200's with large X counts is going to eat up target backing centers. We ran into this during SoA's in Raton and we only shot 2 & 10 shots.

Perhaps we should consider shooting only 600 yards during a mid -range Championships? What say you all?

+1. This 3 - 5 -6 stuff sorta sounds like some people from another discipline got together and decided what an F-Class mid-range match ought to look like. Eric and Larry are correct. The MR should = 600 and the LR 1000. My wife shoots pretty well in open. We practice at 300 and as far as I know I've only seen her miss the ten ring once in 2 years and was cause I stepped on her foot. That's not really a fair analogy though, she don't miss the x ring much either. I'm sort of proud of her. Can ya tell? LOL
It IS necessary to step on her foot every now and again though.

 

[ohiodan]

I agree that moving the MR and LR Nationals makes sense in so many ways. I'm not in favor of having both at the same facility or even back to back. Many people can't be gone from work/home for that long without causing problems at both. Having both matches at different ranges and weeks/months apart also makes sense. Opens it up to more ranges, especially for MR. I shot the MR Nationals this past year at Camp Perry, I don't think anyone would miss shooting at 300 & 500. 600 is where the match is won, why not shoot 600 exclusively.
Not mentioned so far is Malvern Range in NE Ohio, a private range with 25 firing points @ 1,000 yards. Malvern also has 600 yard firing points for hosting MR! It's located close to Canton, OH with enough hotels/restaurants to accommodate shooters.

Dan Pohlabel

 

[effendude]

A few more thoughts on the MR issue.

At Elk River, MN we have shot the MN state championship at only 600 yards for the last several years. As one of the main guys who maintains the targets, 300 is a waste of resources from a club perspective. An average HM shooter lands most of their shots in the X-10 ring, blowing out the spotter and the backer so often that it often takes 22 minutes to complete a string with delays. At a club match, we do shoot 300 each year towards the end of the season on worn backers but we do it a little different. We paste (4) 300 yard centers on one frame(two rows of two), let the shooter shoot their 22 shots in any order, but divided up between the 4 targets. Very similar to the smallbore 5-spot targets.

Moving shooters between firing points in a huge PITA and a waste of time. We have used a truck/trailer with picnic tables as a pit wagon the last few years to get shooters to the pit and this really sped up the rotation process.

As far as 500 yard matches, my opinion is the only reason to shoot 500 yards is if you don't have a 600 yard range. Period.

Scott

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

It sounds like Ben Avery and Whittington Center are hard to beat!!

 

[Dos XX]

Not mentioned so far is Malvern Range in NE Ohio, a private range with 25 firing points @ 1,000 yards. Malvern also has 600 yard firing points for hosting MR! It's located close to Canton, OH with enough hotels/restaurants to accommodate shooters.

Dan Pohlabel

Dan, are you saying you think they would and are capable of hosting a nationals? That would be a pretty central location.

I agree with the 600 yd only plan.


Arizona F Class,
Ben Avery is hard to beat. Unless you live east of the MS. I don't live east of the MS and it is still a 17 hour drive. I will be making it again in Feb.

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

Are there any ranges the foot the bill in Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri ? That would be the most central locations for everybody.

 

[Lbart]

Mark has brought up a number of good points but assuming it is decided to limit the Mid-Range Nationals to 600 yards I still believe the number of firing points/parking available will quickly become a problem for the smaller clubs. Particularly back east mid-range will likely become the distance of choice for many people since there are more 600 yard ranges than 1k ranges. The Mid- Range Nationals will grow! I for one did not shoot the 2014 M-R or FB Nationals because I don't care for the Camp Perry format.

I am not in favor of 6 relays or even 5. Two in the pits and two on the firing line is my preferred relay method. It makes for a shorter day and a more relaxed pace can be used if weather is not in the forecast. Dean I like to go to new ranges to shoot but FC is going to grow and large match numbers draw more shooters and more sponsors. I would love to see someone/club build a 50+ point 600/1k range near the east coast even though I hate drive east of the Mississippi.

 

[Alexander-M]

Lbart:
"Perhaps we should consider shooting only 600 yards during a mid -range Championships? What say you all?"

Immike:
"Yes , moving the people and range equipment across the field is a challenge for any club and requires a lot more staff and time."

Effendude:
"Moving shooters between firing points in a huge PITA and a waste of time."

Agree. The hassle of moving to shoot 200, 300, and then 600 was the main reason I did not return to shooting X-Course/service rifle after getting started in F-T/R last year.

Nando

 

[Jim See]

Why does the NRA do this? Would it not be a good Idea for them to form a voluntary committee of actual national level f-class shooters to come up with legitimate proposals on COFs and range requirements. Would save them a lot of frustration in constantly getting it wrong.

 

[Medic505]

Why does the NRA do this? Would it not be a good Idea for them to form a voluntary committee of actual national level f-class shooters to come up with legitimate proposals on COFs and range requirements. Would save them a lot of frustration in constantly getting it wrong.

That would be too simple Jim.

Larry, I'm with you on the format they had at Perry. I was planning a trip up there last year till I looked at the program. I probably missed a good match, but having shoot-offs? Who the heck thought that one up?

 

[Dos XX]

Why does the NRA do this? Would it not be a good Idea for them to form a voluntary committee of actual national level f-class shooters to come up with legitimate proposals on COFs and range requirements. Would save them a lot of frustration in constantly getting it wrong.

I am not sure it frustrates them at all.

It does us.

 

[XTR]

Why does the NRA do this? Would it not be a good Idea for them to form a voluntary committee of actual national level f-class shooters to come up with legitimate proposals on COFs and range requirements. Would save them a lot of frustration in constantly getting it wrong.

That would be too simple Jim.

Larry, I'm with you on the format they had at Perry. I was planning a trip up there last year till I looked at the program. I probably missed a good match, but having shoot-offs? Who the heck thought that one up?

There were no shoot offs in Mid Range. That is the Long range format. Now at the F class Regional that was shot along side the HP nationals (at long range) there was no F class agg. I found that to be a little queer.

Another oddity was in MR there were only daily and 2 day aggs. None of the 300/500/600 matches were reported as matches so there were no prizes or recognition for any of those, and if you shot a record at one of those it didn't count (because only the agg goes in). Go figure?

I don't know them personally so I'm just guessing. I certain that the NRA competitive shooting folks don't understand F class, and they are torn because they see the growth, and they want that, but they are somehow trying to force it to fit into their existing paradigms and possibly resent the idea that maybe it needs to be the other way around.

[Edit] I also think right now this is an academic discussion of where various portions could be held if there was a local club willing, and if the NRA was willing (pun intended) to let it happen. I for one am not in a position to speak for Oak Ridge, and I imagine that there are some others who are looking at the available ranges and thinking out loud as it were.