Not sure where this goes, but let's try it here.

[BoydAllen]

This evening I checked in with a friend who builds his own rifles and has been doing a lot of relatively small plate shooting, with friends, out to over 1,200 yd. or a little more. His latest project is a .260AI that he was testing some plastic tipped Sierra 140s in. I asked him how it shot and after telling me that he had shot it in our current triple digit afternoon temperatures, wiht the attendant heavy mirage, he said that it shot about 1 1/4 at 200 with the best load of IMR 4831 which he had chosen to get the load density and velocity that he wanted, also because he has a good supply. After telling about the accuracy, I did not say anything, since that was not up to his usual standard, but then he added something that is the point of this post. He put one of the "rubbers" on, flush with the muzzle, and the group shrank to 1/2".

A couple of years ago, I loaned him a couple of what Sims Laboratories used to call their Deresonators to play with on a couple of .22 RF bench rifles. It turned out that they came in very handy, allowing him to compensate for lot to lot variations of the target ammo he shoots, and in one case eliminating fliers that had plagued a particular rifle. I should add that he is a careful, imaginative, and well organized tester. Some times one, sometimes two, other times none, and with different rifles and lots of ammo different positions on the barrel turned out to work the best. Of course that led him to try them on CF rifles, and in some cases he was able to improve accuracy using one or two of them.

IMO there are three main reasons that people do not try these vibration dampers. They are ugly, they are cheap, and they have not seen others using them at the range or read much about them on the internet. For myself, if something makes a rifle shoot better, that is enough. I have personally seen where they have, not always, but enough to make trying one or more worth the trouble.

The reason that I put this in the reloading forum is that reloading discussions are mostly about tuning, and this is that.

 

[nakneker]

I’ve played around with them, mostly on lighter shorter barrels on hunting rifles. I’ve had mixed results, I’ve had a couple rifles where they helped a lot and other rifles that didn’t really respond to them. Honestly I haven’t played around with them for years, haven’t thought about them. It was an idea that made sense, I still have them and I’ll be starting load development on a Tikka T3 in 6.5x55, it will be a good opportunity to try them again. Seems like they were the rage 15 years ago or so, I see amazon still sells them.

Amazon.com: LimbSaver Sharpshooter X-Ring Barrel Dampener, Standard Barrels, Black: Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: LimbSaver Sharpshooter X-Ring Barrel Dampener, Standard Barrels, Black: Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.com

 

[GaryL1959]

There used to be a guy that shot with us that had a, I s*#t you not, hose clamp about 2 to 3 inches back from the muzzle, right where the fluting stops, on a savage .223 BVSS. Said that was his 'tuner'. Looked a bit odd, to say the least, but the dang thing was a shooter.

 

[MTlager]

I have had one on a 280 AI hunting rifle for years. I shot 3 shot groups at 600 yards, starting with it 1 inch behind the muzzle and moving it back 2 inches for each group. Definitely can tune with them. Its still on the end of my barrel.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I think anything that affects barrel harmonics will act as a tuner. The better the device can be adjusted in a systematic manner and then stay secure in that position the more user friendly it will be. I have well thought out professionally made tuners on 3 bench rifles and would hate to be without them. I am sure the Sims tuners can work, I have talked to happy users. Ugly, yes....repeatable, doubt it.....secure, not hardly. They are a useable tool. Learn them and you will benefit for them. Are they for everone, probably not. I saw an Ezell tuner for sale on here the other day, would be a good place to start. Mike is on here as gunsandgunsmithing.

 

[CharlieNC]

There used to be a guy that shot with us that had a, I s*#t you not, hose clamp about 2 to 3 inches back from the muzzle, right where the fluting stops, on a savage .223 BVSS. Said that was his 'tuner'. Looked a bit odd, to say the least, but the dang thing was a shooter.

Wolfman had one on his 22, there seems to be a bit of history of folks using these.

 

[Doom]

Wolfman had one on his 22, there seems to be a bit of history of folks using these.

Yep. Saw one not long ago. Think it was on a 10/22.

 

[PigButtons]

I have one on an antique BSA Martini Cadet that has a pencil barrel in 22K Hornet. It's been wearing one of the LimbSavers for 5+ years. It took about 30 rounds to get it dialed in but now hasn't been moved for a very long time. It shrank the groups I was getting by half across all of the loads I worked up. If you saw this barrel with a bore scope you'd be amazed at the groups it will shoot.

It is the only rifle that responded well enough to the rubber tuners to keep it in place, or should I say, it was the only one that wouldn't respond well enough to "normal" load tuning that it needed one.

I have used them on rimfires but due to lack of control of the ammo even lot to lot, the tuner was more hassle than it was worth. I had to keep moving the tuner and testing and well you get the idea. I spent more time tuning than having fun and that isn't worth the effort for me. After all, how well will rimfire hunting rifles shoot with mid grade ammo?

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I used them, before becoming a member here and learning how to develop loads, all but one is off. Suppressor,compensator,brakes all can effect/tune a barrel. I had one on my 30tc Icon, until I had it threaded. It makes nice little cloverleaf with factory and handloads, does it suppressed also.

 

[divingin]

The thin-wallet option is to get a pack of heavy O-Rings a bit smaller than the barrel diameter. On my old target rifle, O-ring type hose grommets work perfectly. Takes some experimentation to get them placed (number of pieces and position), but my personal belief is that they do have a definite effect.

 

[DGP4]

Those LimbSaver deresonators work very well on my rimfire barrels. I have a CZ 455 that would not shoot under an inch at 50 yards no matter what I tried and the deresonator shrank the groups down to 1/2 inch. I have tried them on centerfire barrels with inconclusive results. I recently read an article where the author used these steel shaft collars and I have had good results so far on my Savage rimfire in an MDT chassis that never shot well. I'll be trying it on some centerfire guns soon.

Climax Metal C-100 Shaft Collar, Zinc Plated Steel, Set Screw Style, One Piece, 1" Bore, 1-1/2" OD, 5/8" Wide, With 5/16-18 Set Screw: Setscrew Shaft Collars: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Climax Metal C-100 Shaft Collar, Zinc Plated Steel, Set Screw Style, One Piece, 1" Bore, 1-1/2" OD, 5/8" Wide, With 5/16-18 Set Screw: Setscrew Shaft Collars: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

 

[dkhunt14]

I know a guy that put rubber o rings back of his muzzle brake. He would experiment with different thickness ones and more then one. He actually set a new record at 1000 yard BR doing this. Matt

 

[Ned Ludd]

Any weight attached to the barrel that changes the natural harmonics can and will act like a tuner. Depending on how and where the weight is attached, it might open up the groups, tighten them up, or not have any noticeable effect. I have seen a number of shooters use the rubber O-rings to good effect in terms of using them as tuners. IMO, the main drawbacks to their use are how fine an increment in terms of placement on the barrel can realistically be achieved, and the potential that they might move enough to throw the setup out of tune during storage and/or transport of the rifle. Neither of those are issues with a threaded muzzle-type tuner. Nonetheless, if someone uses the rubber O-rings, gets the result they're after, and likes them, why not?

 

[BoydAllen]

Tap on a free floated barrel with a small, loosely held metal object, and then do the same thing with a Deresonator on that same barrel. If you pay close attention, I think that you will learn something important.

 

[epc308]

Clamp the receiver of a rifle in a padded vice, place a stethoscope on the barrel, than tap along the length with a hammer handle. As you travel the length, you will hear anything from a ping to a thud of one or several null points.
I learned this method from a guy that shoots a single shot rifle with octagonal barrel in long range competition. Those folks rest the barrel on cross sticks to shoot, which goes against everything you read. The null point found by the stethoscope gives them a starting point to place the cross sticks.
Using barrel support doesnt seem to affect the results on the target.

 

[mikecr]

1 1/4 at 200 to 1/2 is a surprisingly big change.
Doesn't make sense to me that a single change could be so dominant to tune (if that's what it is).
I would suspect a problem with the build -that is somehow being countered with the pressure point.
Could present an opportunity to learn something big

 

[BoydAllen]

1 1/4 at 200 to 1/2 is a surprisingly big change.
Doesn't make sense to me that a single change could be so dominant to tune (if that's what it is).
I would suspect a problem with the build -that is somehow being countered with the pressure point.
Could present an opportunity to learn something big

His barrels are always free floated, so there is no pressure point.

 

[mikecr]

The pressure point is the Sims. It's countering a problem.
Is the barrel bedded (barrel pad), just in front of the action?

I've had guns with or without this, and I don't know the answer to this puzzle Boyd.
Just exploring possibles

 

[K22]

When my Rem Model 7's (two each - 223 Rem) had factory barrels on them I tried the Limbsaver rubber damping device on both. Both rifles had the barrels free floated in factory stocks. One rifle had the factory plastic stock, the other a wooden stock. The action was bedded on the plastic stock.

They grouped about 1" or so consistently at 100 yards if my memory serves me right without the damping device. Before free floating, groups were very inconsistent from a cold barrel 5 shot strings. All groups shot with tailored reloads and quality bullets, i.e. Sierra and or Nosler. My standard for a varmint rifle is 1/2 or so MOA so I wasn't satisfied.

The device did reduce the groups on one of the Model 7, SS 20" barrel, about 3/8 to 1/2" so. In addition to the size, the group clustered more uniformly both vertically and horizonility. I had to play around with the location of the device on the barrel but it did work. There was no affect on the 18" barrel Model 7 in the wooded stock. Yes it destroys the look of the rifle for a traditionalist like me but I'm all about performance so I'd rub cow manure on the barrel if it produced significant performance improvement.

Yet I though I could do better so I made a significant investment in both rifles as explained below.

Both these rifles now group in the 1/2 moa range consistently. I had the barrels replaced with Douglas Match barrels, 20" in length and one contour heavier than the factory barrels. I also replaced the factory plastic stock and wooded stock with B&C Metalists stocks. These rifles have performed extremely well in the field, as a light weight stalking (walking around) varmint rifles. Case in point, in 2019, I had a 98% success rate in the field with the SS Model 7. This year I'm 6 for 6 on ghogs. All shots under 250 yards.

The Model 7 CS actually shoots better but I developed extreme clean barrel flyers. This I believe it due to over cleaning with a new solvent brand but I'm working that issue this summer.

I sold the Limbsaver device.

 

[BoydAllen]

The pressure point is the Sims. It's countering a problem.
Is the barrel bedded (barrel pad), just in front of the action?

I've had guns with or without this, and I don't know the answer to this puzzle Boyd.
Just exploring possibles

A pressure point is generally understood to be a point of contact between the barrel and the stock. I do not know of any builder of serious competition rifles who beds barrel shanks for those builds. On this subject there is absolutely no need for conjecture. These things are dirt cheap, and easy to use. IMO when the subject is something that is easy and affordable to try, the place to sort these things out is at the range.