Nostalgic rifles

[centershot]

I just picked up a smith and wesson 1700ls in an odd ball caliber. 7x64. Cant seem to find any information on it. It has a beautiful stock and doesn't appear to of been shot much if ever. Picture doesn't do it much justice. Went from the last owners safe to my safe haha.


Same as a .280 Remington--almost. Are you into hand loading? I believe Lapua makes brass for it.

 

[86alaskan]

good for you. Grandpa, your dad or you - snap shots? just bought a sako forester .243 here on forum. they are handsome rifles, esp w knurled bolts
and hooded front sight.

We've all taken some pretty good driven deer shots. It's just that kind of rifle. You set the Kahles on 2.2, and it's instinctive like a shot gun. It's seen better days, but the wear all has stories behind it. I'm hopeful for this season as well, because we've been getting a very large heavy 10pt on cameras at the family farm. Maybe the old Sako can make another harvest.

 

[butchlambert]

I just picked up a smith and wesson 1700ls in an odd ball caliber. 7x64. Cant seem to find any information on it. It has a beautiful stock and doesn't appear to of been shot much if ever. Picture doesn't do it much justice. Went from the last owners safe to my safe haha.

View attachment 1071968

Mike, go to the accuratereloading forum. Lots of folks over there shoot that caliber. Yes, it is close to the 280.
I was fortunate to be able to buy 2 of Mike Walker's "Remington Custom Shop" favorite rifles. First was his Mod37 rimfire and next was his 722 in 257 Roberts. The 257 Roberts was his favorite white tail cartridge.

I asked him how he got the beautiful wood. Mike said, "I'm the keeper of the stock blank inventory".

 

[mikeeg02]

Very nice! Yes I load, but it came with 100 rounds of factory remington 168 or 170 grain ammo. And quite honestly, I think its too pretty to carry. I did see Grafs has lapua brass on sale.

What I meant was I cant find any info on the rifle itself. Everything I have seen on them was standard us calibers. I havent seen the 7x64 variant of this rifle listed anywere. I looked through a few gun value books. Not sure if that means someone imported it?

 

[swd]

I'll be heading out with my dad who shoots his dad's early 60's vintage Sako Forester in 243Win. Has the original Kahles 2.2-7 scope mounted by sako in sako rings. Grandpa bought the rifle while stationed in Germany. That rifle has taken way more deer than I can count right now, many of which were snap head shots. It's a stone cold shooter for sure, even almost 60yrs later.

I have almost the same rifle. My father bought a new Sako Forster in 1959 with a Leupold VX1. I still have the original reciept, hang tag and rear apeture sight. Unfortunately I don't still have the father to go with it. Along with a 1859 Sharps paper cutter that has been in the family since at least the 1870's, it's one of the most important rifles I own. My Win 9422 my father gave to me for Christmas when I was 15 is pretty special too.

 

[butchlambert]

Very nice! Yes I load, but it came with 100 rounds of factory remington 168 or 170 grain ammo. And quite honestly, I think its too pretty to carry. I did see Grafs has lapua brass on sale.

What I meant was I cant find any info on the rifle itself. Everything I have seen on them was standard us calibers. I havent seen the 7x64 variant of this rifle listed anywere. I looked through a few gun value books. Not sure if that means someone imported it?

I'm sure it is a custom. Take it out of the stock and see if anything is stamped on the bottom of the metal or stamped in the barrel channel.

 

[Laurie]

I just picked up a smith and wesson 1700ls in an odd ball caliber. 7x64. Cant seem to find any information on it.

It's a popular cartridge in continental Europe, and has recently attracted a growing following among UK deerstalkers. Although very similar to the 280 Rem, it's non-interchangeable. RWS loads ammunition and has unprimed brass available. Dies are no problem. Although it's often compared to the 280 Rem by Americans, and sometimes described as a 280 clone or 'inferior copy', it should be the other way around as the 7X64 preceded the 280 by exactly 40 years having been introduced by the German designer Wilhelm Brennecke in 1917. It was one of several big game and African cartridges from Brennecke in that period and like many of his cartridges was designed for high pressure loadings in strong rifles, in this case 60,191 psi (CIP). It was intended to outperform the existing smaller and lower pressure 7X57mm Mauser and was designed with the Mauser G1898 service rifle or sporting rifles built on the '98 action specifically in mind, initially as a possible military number.

There are data available in some US publications, Hornady's reloading manuals for instance. It's very easy to handload though if you can find brass - simply take 280 Rem data and reduce both starting and maximum loads by 5%.

The S&W rifles of that period were 'rebadged' HVA models (Husqvarna Vapenfabriks Aktiebolag) made in Husqvarna, Sweden. Early HVA / S&W rifles were an improved small-ring Swedish M1896 action with a military trigger and external Mauser claw extractor, but yours appears to be based on the later (and final) HVA Model 8000/9000 series. These were introduced according to Frank de Haas (Bolt Action Rifles. Krause Publications) in 1969 and HVA stopped firearms manufacture in 1972, so few found their way to the US under either name. (The firm is still around as a motorcycle manufacturer.) De Haas summed up this aspect of the model thus:

"I have no knowledge that Swiss & Wesson ever imported this model. I also have no information as to how many of these HVA rifles were made, but surely the number must be quite small."

You may have a rather rare animal there then.

According to De Haas, the 8000 and 9000 were mechanically identical, but the 8000 'Imperial Grade' had a better finish and higher grade walnut stock over the 9000 'Crown Grade'. You appear to have the better one from your photo.

Here's a very complimentary Youtube video about the HVA 8000. The stock may also be different from the HVA badged versions as S&W specified its own grade of stocking.

 

[mikeeg02]

I'm sure it is a custom. Take it out of the stock and see if anything is stamped on the bottom of the metal or stamped in the barrel channel.

Ill get a couple more pictures tonight. I know its stamped on the side 7x64. But it looks like a factory type stamp.

Laurie - Great info! Thank you

 

[mikeeg02]

This action appears more like a howa 1500. It also says made in Japan to their specifications and has a m16 style extractor.

But heres the barrel pictures

 

[butchlambert]

Looks to be a hammer forged barrel. May be a rare factory European rifle. The stock does not appear to be a factory thing.

 

[mikeeg02]

What makes the stock not appear factory ?

 

[Laurie]

Interesting - as they say. Nice rifle anyway and in a great cartridge. 7X64 users here (the UK) love it. The 280 has never caught on that much in Europe, probably because the 7X64 was already available. The old British companies that died at the back end of the last century, BSA and Parker-Hale, produced many rifles in the calibre. Although intended mainly for continental Europe, especially Germany, quite a few ended up in British shooters' hands and are now as cheap as chips even in as new condition. All of the European gun manufacturers - CZ, Sauer, Sako, etc still list it.

Many people here regard the 7mm Rem Magnum as too much cartridge even for the largest Scottish red deer, so the 7X57 and 7X64 fill a gap.

 

[butchlambert]

What makes the stock not appear factory ?


View attachment 1072097

You might go to the Accuratereloading.com forum and post your photo. I have been around custom hunting rifles for a day or two and the stock is from the 60s or 70s. I have not seen that design except for the Weatherby or their clones.

 

[mikeeg02]

Thats quite interesting on the history of the cartridge. Ill check out that site as well. Thanks butch. I apologize if I hogged the thread!

 

[GSPV]

This was my first centerfire rifle. 1975 push feed M70. Originally in 243. Mike Ezell gave it a good going over for me including a rebarrel to 260 Remington. This was my last hunt with the old girl before gifting it to my son.

This was Black Friday, 2012. We were deer hunting, but two coyotes came out on the pipeline I was hunting. 226 steps. Berger 130 VLD Hunting pushed along with a stout load of H4831sc.

 

[earlcurtis67]

Here are my two favorites and I still shoot them ocasionaly. The model 12 belonged to my Grandfather, it was the fiirst rifle i ever shot. We would sit in the top of his barn and try to shoot crows in his corn field. He would let me shoot at an old Prince Albert tobacco can when the crows flew off. I try to take it squirrel hunting every year, it feels like he’s there with me.
The shot gun is a WWII take home that my uncle brought back and gave to my Dad. My Dad never shot it that I know of but I sure did. Back then there was plenty of Quail and squirrels and I mowed lawns just to buy shells for it. There was 600 acres behind my house where i grew up, it was paradise as far as I was concerned.
I’ve tried to find out about that shot gun but all I know is it is some kind of Guild gun, built in Enns Germany, 16 guage. Barrels have Krupp markings and it is pretty ornatly engraved. Both barrels are pitted but otherwise it in good shape.
Thank you OP for starting this thread, brings back a lot of good memorys. E

 

[ckrifles]

About 1974 I bought a Sako L579 action brand new for 77.00$. I had a Gunsmith who worked at Glen Slade's gun shop in Houston TX. put a #1 Shilen barrel on in 25-284. Sent it to Fagen Stocks and they put a nice piece of walnut on with checkering for I think 140.00$. It made a really nice hunting rifle that I used until the late 90s the barrel was gone so I reberreled it myself with a#1 Shilen in 6x47 Swiss Match. That little rifle was super accurate and a joy to carry. I gave it to my Daughter a few years ago so still get to handle once in a wile

 

[rjtfroggy]

You guys don't know how lucky you are. My father did not like guns of any kind nor did he like the out doors.
I on the other hand was not a chip off the old block. I bought my first rifle in 1970 a Marlin 336 in 30/30, it came with a Marlin 4x scope, a sling and a box of ammo, all for $105 tax included.
This rifle resides in my safe with a bunch of others. I opened the safe a few years ago and reached in for it to use on a white tail hunt and found the fore end had swelled over time and cracked, so I replaced it with a (gasp) plastic all weather one, not the same but still my first.
When I go I have no idea where my guns will go, no grand children and my wife and daughters sure don't want them.
Hopefully if I am granted enough time left on this world I will find a youngster that is deserving enough to give them too.

 

[centershot]

You guys don't know how lucky you are. My father did not like guns of any kind nor did he like the out doors.
I on the other hand was not a chip off the old block. I bought my first rifle in 1970 a Marlin 336 in 30/30, it came with a Marlin 4x scope, a sling and a box of ammo, all for $105 tax included.
This rifle resides in my safe with a bunch of others. I opened the safe a few years ago and reached in for it to use on a white tail hunt and found the fore end had swelled over time and cracked, so I replaced it with a (gasp) plastic all weather one, not the same but still my first.
When I go I have no idea where my guns will go, no grand children and my wife and daughters sure don't want them.
Hopefully if I am granted enough time left on this world I will find a youngster that is deserving enough to give them too.

Almost my exact story. My father liked to fish. I was not allowed to have guns, so I started a cartridge collection. My grandfather made a case for me to mount my collection on the wall. I still have the case, with all of the old obsolete calibers and the rest of the collection in a 20 mm ammo can. I have two sons and a daughter but they have no idea what all of the "stuff" that I have is.

 

[justinp61]

My Dad didn't hunt either but luckily my Uncles on my Mothers side did. Living on the farm my brother and I could hunt if our work was caught up. In 1977 I was 16 and saved my money and bought a Model 70 in 30-06, the same rifle my three Uncles had. When I bought the rifle I didn't have the money for a scope so I saved and sold some hogs to buy a Redfield 3-9 Widefield MS. The rifle was $216 and the scope was $156.

Eight years ago I had shoulder surgery so I bought a Savage mdl 16 in 260 because I couldn't take the recoil of the 06. I have fought the 260 ever since, finally I've had enough and the 06 has came back out of the safe for deer season. Sadly the old Redfield isn't very clear so tonight it was removed and a Leupold 4.5-14 side focus I had on the shelf replaced it.

Two of the three Uncles I hunted with have passed and the other is well into his 80'S. Next Saturday morning, the opening day of our deer season I'm sure I'll sit and look at the old rifle and it's scars and bruises and remember the great times from years ago.