Norma 6Dasher Brass

[Dubya]

Bmat,

I did not notice a big difference in seating pressure when I loaded them the first time, as I had run an expanding mandrel through the necks before I turned them. The fired and sized cases from yesterday are in the tumbler now... I may go ahead and anneal them as well as the Lapua comparison cases before I load them up with increasing charges of RL15. I was going to that anyway after the third firing, but I can't shoot until late weekend or Monday anyway so may go just do it now.

I fired 5 of the NEW NORMA BRASS loaded with RE15 at 33.1 grains w/105 Berger Hybrids (.010 jam) today in my 11# Rem. 700 Lapua Dasher.
Brass was trimmed to 1.560, after firing it measured 1.567 and showed some pressure (primer crater)
Average of the 5 shots was 3032 fps, LO=3027 & HI=3038 / ES 11 /SD 4.1 group was .375 at 100 yds. with 8-10 mph twichey wind.
The new Dasher brass will not take as much powder as Lapua by 1 to 1.5 grains so load with care.

Gary C.

 

[TBeghtol]

Dubya,

What was your top end load of RL15 in Lapua Brass, and what primer did you use?

I never broke 33 gr RL15 in my Dasher with Hybrids, so just curious where you topped out.

Thanks for posting your results as well. I am going to sneak up on 33 gr RL15 and see where it get pressure signs. After that I am tempted to try some H4350 and IMR 8208 XBR.

Thanks,

Tim

I fired 5 of the NEW NORMA BRASS loaded with RE15 at 33.1 grains w/105 Berger Hybrids. The new Dasher brass will not take as much powder as Lapua by 1 to 1.5 grains so load with care.

Gary C.

 

[Dubya]

Dubya,

What was your top end load of RL15 in Lapua Brass, and what primer did you use?

I never broke 33 gr RL15 in my Dasher with Hybrids, so just curious where you topped out.

Thanks for posting your results as well. I am going to sneak up on 33 gr RL15 and see where it get pressure signs. After that I am tempted to try some H4350 and IMR 8208 XBR.

Thanks,

Tim

Tim, my top load in this particular rifle (with Lapua brass) has been 33.5 using CCI 450 primers with no pressure signs.
As you say, sneak up on it, it's a learning curve.

 

[Bmat]

A bit more info. Fired case volume (not resized) - H2O overflow

Lapua 42.11 gr
Norma 41.66 gr

The Norma cases held just over 40 gr of H2O before firing
My Norma cases average about 8 gr heavier than Lapua (dry) with trimmed and turned necks

 

[Sheldon N]

My Norma cases average about 8 gr heavier than Lapua (dry) with trimmed and turned necks

Don't worry, that's all in the rim.

 

[Bmat]

Don't worry, that's all in the rim.

It may be. 8 gr is 6% more metal than the Lapua cases. If that weight is distributed in a manner that is advantageous to me then I am 100% OK with that. More shooting will tell. Next time out I will take the pressures up close to 60000 psi. If that works out I will move up to 62000 psi. my Lapua is erratic in terms of reliability above 62000 and won't last above 65000 so 62000 is a good milestone for me in my gun.

 

[TBeghtol]

Bmat,

Are you using Quickload to compute pressure?

If so I would be interested to see your workup using case volume to compute pressure w 105 Hybrid and RL15.

Thanks,

Tim

 

[Bmat]

Bmat,

Are you using Quickload to compute pressure?

If so I would be interested to see your workup using case volume to compute pressure w 105 Hybrid and RL15.

Thanks,

Tim

Yes I use QuickLoad but I do enter actual data to proof it. If everything looks good I use it. If not I don't and attempt to figure out why. Thus far RL15, Varget, Vit 140 and Vit 133 have been pretty reliable. Vit 135 was a disaster. I will look at some #s for you with the understanding that I have no way of proofing those. I only shoot 105s to fire form. The rest of my shooting (dasher) is with 80 to 95 gr bullets and 9.5 twist barrels at high velocities. I shoot 100, 200 and 300 yds in very erratic winds. I am after an accurate, flat shooting bullet with good ballistics for bucking constantly and rapidly changing winds.

 

[TBeghtol]

Bmat,

Thank you for the reply. I am interested in what computed pressures are with the new brass and 105 Hybrids to compare to what I see and feel. I appreciate your disclaimer and respect that.

I shoot longer ranges (600 and up) so hope to take advantage of the heavier/higher BC bullets in the Dasher.
I shoot another 6mm wildcat based on the Grendel case and love it with 80 to 90 grain bullets.

 

[TBeghtol]

Sir,

If you don't mind we can continue in private messaging for now.

I will contact you shortly when I get some measurements.

Thank you!

Tim Beghtol

OK Quick Load needs some data to begin. Some fill in the blanks are -

OAL of your loaded round
Case length
bullet length
Powder charge
Case Capacity
Temperature (this is tricky - if you close the bolt on a round in a hot chamber and wait to pull the trigger - you need to guess at the temp when the round is fired - it makes a difference when you get up there close to the max pressure.
Bore diameter
A lot of this is in the Quickload database but I have found it to be close not precise so I enter real data.

Should we do this Via PM or could this be of use to someone else?

 

[dmoran]

My 2-cents on annealing Shiraz/Norma cases:
Have 6-firings on some Shiraz/Norma cases, that is to my experience are softer then the Lapua made Dasher's with equal firings considerably. I guess if you plan to anneal every cycle regardless then maybe its the thing to do, but myself I haven't seen or felt the need to yet at all from them.

I also made up Dasher's from both Lapua & Norma 6BR brass to run equal comparisons to the Shiraz/Norma's. The necks on both the Norma and Shiraz/Norma are staying equal as best I can judge them. The pockets on the Shiraz/Norma's have stayed a little tighter then the Norma-BR, and are running fairly equal to the Lapua's so far.
Donovan

 

[Torge]

Donovan,
How did they shoot compared to Lapua?
I hope you are on your way to Deep Creek.
David

 

[dmoran]

Torge -
Wish I was... but I'm not.
Shot a 4.052" last night with them (4 of them around 2.2").
They'll work - IMO

Good Luck this weekend
Donovan

 

[Torge]

Donovan,
I have 500, but won't shoot them till late August at best.
The weather looks better than what we have had, I'm guessing the pooch won't be starring in the comics this month.
Hope to see you in August.
David

 

[Jet]

Donovan

I turned the necks on 100 pieces of the Norma brass and they felt softer than any of the Lapua BR brass I've turned. I know this is very subjective but that was my initial take away.

A friend here in the Northwest compared velocity between Lapua and the new Norma cases (loads the same just different trim lengths by .010) and found the Norma to shoot on average 10FPS faster.

Have you tested velocity on them yet?

See you next month.

Rich

 

[dmoran]

Rich -
What I have seen is they start out slower and then they catch up pretty close. Takes a couple firings to get them to adhere and stretch to full capacity potential. There different and they react different.

Edited in later: No doubt do to the metallurgy indifference, they adhere/stretch differently. After the 1st-firing the average capacity on my Shiraz/Norma's was 40.62, verses Lapua at 41.54, verses NormaBR at 40.68.
Then after the 4th-firing they averaged 41.12 compared to the Lapua at 41.68, and NormaBR at 41.16.
** (all capacities measured with H380 <> averages from 3 cases of each)
Both the Norma and Shiraz/Norma remain softer on a whole, that continue to adhere/stretch for a couple firings before settling in, or so has been my experience.

Yes... see you next month !.!.!
Donovan

 

[Joe]

We're any brass shipped to dealers in Canada

Jeff

www.rpsinternational.com (Alberta, Canada) has dasher brass in stock.

 

[Chfcemerson]

OK Guys...
I've read through the posts and I'm still not sure what the best solution for this brass is. I have 200 of them and can't get them in any of my shell holders. The necks also are a problem. I can't even get a mandrel in them to turn the necks. Doesn't anybody at Norma own a good set of calipers or bother to try and duplicate the dasher brass we have all been using so far? Right now I'm thinking I would have been better off buying some Lapua 6BR brass and working them over like I have in the past.
This is a mess. Does anybody have an "easy fix"?

 

[dmoran]

Chfcemerson -

I used a Lee #3 to get going, then ordered a couple of the Redding made 6Dasher shell-holders from Bullets.com, which came, that are a very nice fit.

As to your neck issue, mine were nice that were a perfect fit to my .24290 expander, that went through like silk. What is the expander diameter your trying them on measure?

Donovan

 

[Chfcemerson]

I think the mandrel for my turner might be oversized....that is most likely why I'm having the problem..I haven't even pulled my dasher out of the safe to see if it will chamber the brass. I think I'll try it on my fire form barrel first. I just looked at Bullet.com and the shell holders are currently "not available". Fire forming dasher brass is a pain in the azz, but I don't see this cutting any time..I'll look through my shell holders and see if I can find something that will work. I hate to have to ask for a return from one of the members here but I don't want to be stuck with these. Confidence level is not high.

Glenn