Norma 6Dasher Brass
- Thread starter Shiraz
- Start date
I am using the reamer offered by Bullets before the Dasher brass. 1.555 throat and .272 neck. So far I haven't turned any necks. I will try and get to my load with Varget but it will be tight. I like the 8208 and will be able to get the velocity up without compressing the powder. The 8208 groups well at 100 but I don't see anyone using this powder in a dasher. This powder shoots well with short Rangers and in my 308 at long range with the 155's. I hope I'm not missing something trying this powder in my Dasher. Also forgot to say thanks Shiraz. Cheers
There are some very well known shooters that shoot 8208 in their 6 Dashers. You won't get the velocity you get with RL15 but if it shoots good then go with it...
Curmudgeon, (and anyone else who might be interested)...
I currently load my 6mm Dasher with RL15 and have shot it quite a bit with IMR 8208 XBR before RL15 became more available this year. I am going to give this new Norma brass a work up with RL15 then do the same with IMR 8208 XBR when I have good data for the RL15.
I have an existing Dasher chambered with a similar reamer to yours, but with 1.570" cartridge length and 0.2704" neck. I have some good known loads for this barrel with 105 Hybrids and RL15 as well as IMR 8208 XBR. I took 40 of the new Norma Dasher brass cases and trimmed them back to fit my chamber length then turned to 0.012" neck thickness to give a loaded neck diameter of 0.267".
I primed these cases with CCI 450 primers. The virgin cases primed fine, with normal resistance. I loaded up twenty cases with 31.6 grains RL15 and the 105 Hybrid seated to a light jam. (This seating depth worked well with Lapua brass so stuck with it.) I also loaded ten each with 31.8 grains RL15 and ten more with 32.0 grains RL15.
My intent for these first test rounds was to get an initial impression of how this new brass compared to known loads fired in Lapua brass. I did not chronograph any rounds fired today, as it was too windy to set up the chronograph.
All rounds fired fine. The first three ten shot groups were well under .5 MOA and extracted normally. Fired primers looked good and no indications of excessive pressure. The last ten shots with the 32.0 grain load of RL15 had a little stiffer bolt lift, and beginnings of bright spot spot on cartridge head where ejector is located. The group with the 32.0 grain load was a little bigger, but truthfully the wind was gusting quite a bit and I was not taking as much time as previous groups.
Went home, wiped cases off with Ballistol and inspected all of them. Nothing unusual was noted. Fired cases measured right in line with Lapua cases fired in same chamber. I resized them in my Forster full-length sizing die and again dimensions were right in line with previous results with Lapua cases. Re-primed all cases with new CCI 450 primers in preparation for loading again.
So, for tomorrow I will load these same cases up to shoot some groups and hopefully get some chronograph readings. Initial impressions are that the virgin cases have slightly less internal capacity and may reach pressure limits with approximately 1.0 grain less powder than what I have found with Lapua cases. This will have to be verified now that I have once-fired cases to work with. Will be interested to see where velocity is with these loads. If the weather co-operates I will shoot some more with these now once-fired cases.
Disclaimer: Loads listed above were safe in my rifle in the conditions under which I fired them. Use them and any other information given at your own risk. I am NOT a world class benchrest shooter or ballistician. I am however, an experienced reloader, shooter, machinist, and gunsmith who pursues information for my own education and enjoyment. If you find this and any future information useful, interesting or amusing I am happy to enter a discussion. If you prefer to argue, harangue, harass, or be otherwise dis-agreeable please save your energy/my time and refrain from such actions.
I currently load my 6mm Dasher with RL15 and have shot it quite a bit with IMR 8208 XBR before RL15 became more available this year. I am going to give this new Norma brass a work up with RL15 then do the same with IMR 8208 XBR when I have good data for the RL15.
I have an existing Dasher chambered with a similar reamer to yours, but with 1.570" cartridge length and 0.2704" neck. I have some good known loads for this barrel with 105 Hybrids and RL15 as well as IMR 8208 XBR. I took 40 of the new Norma Dasher brass cases and trimmed them back to fit my chamber length then turned to 0.012" neck thickness to give a loaded neck diameter of 0.267".
I primed these cases with CCI 450 primers. The virgin cases primed fine, with normal resistance. I loaded up twenty cases with 31.6 grains RL15 and the 105 Hybrid seated to a light jam. (This seating depth worked well with Lapua brass so stuck with it.) I also loaded ten each with 31.8 grains RL15 and ten more with 32.0 grains RL15.
My intent for these first test rounds was to get an initial impression of how this new brass compared to known loads fired in Lapua brass. I did not chronograph any rounds fired today, as it was too windy to set up the chronograph.
All rounds fired fine. The first three ten shot groups were well under .5 MOA and extracted normally. Fired primers looked good and no indications of excessive pressure. The last ten shots with the 32.0 grain load of RL15 had a little stiffer bolt lift, and beginnings of bright spot spot on cartridge head where ejector is located. The group with the 32.0 grain load was a little bigger, but truthfully the wind was gusting quite a bit and I was not taking as much time as previous groups.
Went home, wiped cases off with Ballistol and inspected all of them. Nothing unusual was noted. Fired cases measured right in line with Lapua cases fired in same chamber. I resized them in my Forster full-length sizing die and again dimensions were right in line with previous results with Lapua cases. Re-primed all cases with new CCI 450 primers in preparation for loading again.
So, for tomorrow I will load these same cases up to shoot some groups and hopefully get some chronograph readings. Initial impressions are that the virgin cases have slightly less internal capacity and may reach pressure limits with approximately 1.0 grain less powder than what I have found with Lapua cases. This will have to be verified now that I have once-fired cases to work with. Will be interested to see where velocity is with these loads. If the weather co-operates I will shoot some more with these now once-fired cases.
Disclaimer: Loads listed above were safe in my rifle in the conditions under which I fired them. Use them and any other information given at your own risk. I am NOT a world class benchrest shooter or ballistician. I am however, an experienced reloader, shooter, machinist, and gunsmith who pursues information for my own education and enjoyment. If you find this and any future information useful, interesting or amusing I am happy to enter a discussion. If you prefer to argue, harangue, harass, or be otherwise dis-agreeable please save your energy/my time and refrain from such actions.
The very best part of this site is how willing folks are to share. Next range day I will compare Lapua and Norma brass with Varget and 8208. Right now I shoot the 107 SMK moly so will check with magneto speed. I will shoot 300 yard groups and should be able to post photos. Thanks to all.
Seems to me the loads seem very mild, to the point of being no more than a standard 6BR. I have run a medium load of 33.5 of Rl- 15 and a 105 class bullet and a cci 450 in Lapua cases this is a 2980 node area in a 28" barrel for over a 100 firings and are still using them for testing……… jim
Full length resizing with a proper custom die that only moves the brass under 2 thou helps maintain case life,
Yes in cartridges greater than a 6ppc, dies do make a difference,
Jeff
I size .001 at the shoulder and .0005 a the base but after awhile they start to click on opening i will use an other die i made to pull the base back a little bit more and i never set the shoulder back more than .0015 to .002. with the BR or Dasher….. jim
Never had a split neck, and yes it does help to anneal. The question was about case life, proper sizing and not over working the brass has the most to do with it. with .001 neck tension it isn't moving much either….. jim
Good Morning Dasher Dudes!
Got out to the range yesterday morning with 40 rounds loaded of the "new" Norma Dasher brass.
This was the second firing of these cases. Previous results posted above on this thread.
So, here is the scoop:
Norma Dasher cases, trimmed to 1.560" turned 0.012" CCI 450 primers Berger 105 Hybrids light jam.
10 rds RL15 31.6 gr 2913 fps av.
10 rds RL15 31.8 gr 2921 fps av.
10 rds RL15 32.0 gr 2949 fps av.
For comparison I fired 10 rounds of Lapua brass previously fired twice including fire-forming.
The 32.0 gr RL15 in Lapua brass (all other specs same as those loaded in Norma brass) gave these results:
Lapua brass av 2938 fps ES 28 SD 8 accuracy 10 shots 0.330"
Norma brass av 2949 fps ES 47 SD 12.4 accuracy 10 shots .485 (9 under 0.265")
What I found interesting is that with same load and components the Norma and Lapua brass were so close together in velocity and accuracy. Also, both loads shot to virtually same point of impact.
I think there is room for increase in powder charge. I cannot say whether or not I can achieve the same top end velocity in the Norma brass as I have in current Lapua cases, but will work up and report my findings. Even if this brass tops out sub 300 fps I am happy so far with the accuracy, dimensions, compatibility with my current chamber and dies.
Thank you again Shiraz for giving us a great new option for shooting the Dasher, and some more fun things to experiment with!
Disclaimer: Loads listed above were safe in my rifle in the conditions under which I fired them. Use them and any other information given at your own risk. I am NOT a world class benchrest shooter or ballistician. I am however, an experienced reloader, shooter, machinist, and gunsmith who pursues information for my own education and enjoyment. If you find this and any future information useful, interesting or amusing I am happy to enter a discussion. If you prefer to argue, harangue, harass, or be otherwise dis-agreeable please save your energy/my time and refrain from such actions.
Got out to the range yesterday morning with 40 rounds loaded of the "new" Norma Dasher brass.
This was the second firing of these cases. Previous results posted above on this thread.
So, here is the scoop:
Norma Dasher cases, trimmed to 1.560" turned 0.012" CCI 450 primers Berger 105 Hybrids light jam.
10 rds RL15 31.6 gr 2913 fps av.
10 rds RL15 31.8 gr 2921 fps av.
10 rds RL15 32.0 gr 2949 fps av.
For comparison I fired 10 rounds of Lapua brass previously fired twice including fire-forming.
The 32.0 gr RL15 in Lapua brass (all other specs same as those loaded in Norma brass) gave these results:
Lapua brass av 2938 fps ES 28 SD 8 accuracy 10 shots 0.330"
Norma brass av 2949 fps ES 47 SD 12.4 accuracy 10 shots .485 (9 under 0.265")
What I found interesting is that with same load and components the Norma and Lapua brass were so close together in velocity and accuracy. Also, both loads shot to virtually same point of impact.
I think there is room for increase in powder charge. I cannot say whether or not I can achieve the same top end velocity in the Norma brass as I have in current Lapua cases, but will work up and report my findings. Even if this brass tops out sub 300 fps I am happy so far with the accuracy, dimensions, compatibility with my current chamber and dies.
Thank you again Shiraz for giving us a great new option for shooting the Dasher, and some more fun things to experiment with!
Disclaimer: Loads listed above were safe in my rifle in the conditions under which I fired them. Use them and any other information given at your own risk. I am NOT a world class benchrest shooter or ballistician. I am however, an experienced reloader, shooter, machinist, and gunsmith who pursues information for my own education and enjoyment. If you find this and any future information useful, interesting or amusing I am happy to enter a discussion. If you prefer to argue, harangue, harass, or be otherwise dis-agreeable please save your energy/my time and refrain from such actions.
Kyle Schultz
Gold $$ Contributor
TBeghtol...
Thanks for sharing this data. Can you provide your basic reamer dimensions and tell us how you are resizing. Also, how did the primer pockets feel on the second loading?
Thanks for sharing this data. Can you provide your basic reamer dimensions and tell us how you are resizing. Also, how did the primer pockets feel on the second loading?
Grimstod
Machinist, Designer, and Shooter.
Why is the Normas SD so much larger compared to the lapua Brass?
Likely just the node the rifle was shooting in. Tweaking powder charge can help you find a node with lower SD.
I use a PT&G reamer similar to the one referred to as "World record Dasher" specs.
The only difference is I specified a 1.570" chamber length.
I size with a Forster full length sizing die with neck honed to 0.265" in a Coax press.
From my measurements I am sizing the shoulder about 0.001" and base around 0.0005" which is in line with what Mr O'Hara recommended earlier.
The cases did not lengthen after firing and sizing the second time.
The primer pockets on second load were as tight as the first time priming.
I will be loading these cases up with incrementally greater charges of RL15 to see what I get higher up.
Thanks for your interest.
Tim Beghtol
The only difference is I specified a 1.570" chamber length.
I size with a Forster full length sizing die with neck honed to 0.265" in a Coax press.
From my measurements I am sizing the shoulder about 0.001" and base around 0.0005" which is in line with what Mr O'Hara recommended earlier.
The cases did not lengthen after firing and sizing the second time.
The primer pockets on second load were as tight as the first time priming.
I will be loading these cases up with incrementally greater charges of RL15 to see what I get higher up.
Thanks for your interest.
Tim Beghtol
I ran into the same thing. Big spreads. I think the Norma brass needs to be annealed. Someone asked if it was annealed from the factory way back on this thread and I never did see an answer. The entire case feels very hard out of the box and bullet seating was very inconsistent. My Lapua gets the same way after a few firings and the spreads get big. In my case I am using a 1.570 chamber and seating flat base bullets way down in there. The problem is not as profound with boat tails as the bearing surface is much less and not as deep. I am annealing mine (both Lapua and Norma) before I load them again. FYI - I had to lube the necks with graphite powder to get reasonable seating pressures.
Bmat,
I did not notice a big difference in seating pressure when I loaded them the first time, as I had run an expanding mandrel through the necks before I turned them. The fired and sized cases from yesterday are in the tumbler now... I may go ahead and anneal them as well as the Lapua comparison cases before I load them up with increasing charges of RL15. I was going to that anyway after the third firing, but I can't shoot until late weekend or Monday anyway so may go just do it now.
I did not notice a big difference in seating pressure when I loaded them the first time, as I had run an expanding mandrel through the necks before I turned them. The fired and sized cases from yesterday are in the tumbler now... I may go ahead and anneal them as well as the Lapua comparison cases before I load them up with increasing charges of RL15. I was going to that anyway after the third firing, but I can't shoot until late weekend or Monday anyway so may go just do it now.
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