No Cold Welding

[Brians356]

I am curious if there are environmental factors that drive this. High temperatures high humidity, salty coastal conditions. I'm sure there are some common factors in storage that make this more likely.

I live in the dry high desert. Here's my previous report on this topic:

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/bullet-weld.3964549/page-5#post-37354680

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[K22]

I don't what to believe any longer . Last year I took 3rd in a local competition,this year I took first ...using last years leftover loads. My score went up 3 points .

Like you, I've never noticed any performance issues with reloads carried over to the following season, sometimes sitting for 6 to 8 months. That was the point of my original post on this issue.

I know what to believe - I don't believe that "cold welding", if there is such a thing, has any significant affect on performance at least with regards to precision reloads for varmint and predator hunting. I can't speak to bench rest shooting since I do not engage in that activity.

I would like to know from the proponents of this issue how do manufacturers of factory ammo minimize or avoid this issue since I've seen some fairly amazing groups shot at the range with premium factory ammo that may have sat on the dealer's shelves for an indefinite amount of time.

 

[Brians356]

Like you, I've never noticed any performance issues with reloads carried over to the following season, sometimes sitting for 6 to 8 months. That was the point of my original post on this issue.

I know what to believe - I don't believe that "cold welding", if there is such a thing, has any significant affect on performance at least with regards to precision reloads for varmint and predator hunting. I can't speak to bench rest shooting since I do not engage in that activity.

I would like to know from the proponents of this issue how do manufacturers of factory ammo minimize or avoid this issue since I've seen some fairly amazing groups shot at the range with premium factory ammo that may have sat on the dealer's shelves for an indefinite amount of time.

The handloads I reported my experience with were 20 years old. I wouldn't expect such a bond to develop in a few months or even years unless ambient conditions accelerated it. As for how ammo manufacturers address this (if at all) that's a question best directed to them.
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[lpreddick]

An interesting observation if you suspect you might have this problem is to seat the bullet .005- .010 deeper. A cold welded bullet will initially resist moving, then it will " pop". You will feel and hear this pop.

 

[Tommie]

When dissimilar metals are in contact there will be electron exchange.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Yall ever noticed the copper wash on the necks of factory ammo?

 

[J F Johannes]

Yall ever noticed the copper wash on the necks of factory ammo?

Exactly! It’s not the carbon, it’s the copper left from previous loadings. Copper is a lubricant. I don’t know how exactly this affects cold welding but it sure does affect neck tension.

Jim

 

[hpshooter]

"When dissimilar metals are in contact there will be electron exchange."

Galvanic corrosion, a known potential problem in fabrications, piping and electrical connections that are made joining metals of dissimilar composition.
Does not always happen, don't have the knowledge to tell you why.

 

[AJC]

I might venture to guess.....that a lot of bullets are now polished and maybe the wax or lubricant has a good effect on reducing or eliminating the effect. Custom bullets may or may not go through a polishing process so maybe they have the issue more. Just brainstorming possibilities. I dont have a position but intrested and have a lot of experience with corrosion.

 

[TC260]

An interesting observation if you suspect you might have this problem is to seat the bullet .005- .010 deeper. A cold welded bullet will initially resist moving, then it will " pop". You will feel and hear this pop.

I have a bunch of 30+ year old 223 reloads that I've been meaning to take to the range and do a little experiment like that. Shot a few the other day and it seemed like 50% of the necks cracked.

I'm more interested to see if reseating reduces cracking but was thinking of doing something like shooting 3 aggs, unaltered, 0.005, and 0.010 reseats to also compare accuracy

 

[AckleymanII]

I never saw cold welding when I live our West in very low humidity. Now, in SC, I have seen it with

223 ammo loaded with N133

7 Mag loaded with IMR 4350

All the brass had been fired several times prior to the cold welding, and the cold welded ammo had been loaded for 5 or so years, stored in a case guard, indoors.

This has me thinking of the Wet tumbling the brass to get rid of contaminants in the case, and otherwise, keeping my ammo fresh from year to year.

I compromised, and when I load 100 cases, I seat the bullets very long so I can seat to the throat dimensions just prior to my wanting to shoot the rounds(6 month time frame).

 

[fatelvis]

If you do some testing over a long period of time, like years, youll see that carbon left in the necks will weld the bullets in and when looked at under magnification they will be pitted, where a clean brass neck will not increase bullet break away force or “pop” when seated deeper. Of course im going to get flamed by theorists but this is what i see.

Wow, this is exactly opposite of what I thought happens. I always believed that the carbon in the neck acted as a "weld barrier" of sorts, preventing cold weld. You learn something every day on this site!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Wow, this is exactly opposite of what I thought happens. I always believed that the carbon in the neck acted as a "weld barrier" of sorts, preventing cold weld. You learn something every day on this site!

See if you have any brass that was fired years ago, say some range pickup brass or something, and look inside there real close. Or maybe you have some cases you loaded years ago with carbon in the necks. Reseat those bullets a bit deeper and see what you find. Theres a lot of people that preload for matches and seat long then reseat right before the match. They know they get that inconsistent pop but most dont even realize why that happens. Give it a try for yourself.

 

[fatelvis]

See if you have any brass that was fired years ago, say some range pickup brass or something, and look inside there real close. Or maybe you have some cases you loaded years ago with carbon in the necks. Reseat those bullets a bit deeper and see what you find. Theres a lot of people that preload for matches and seat long then reseat right before the match. They know they get that inconsistent pop but most dont even realize why that happens. Give it a try for yourself.

Thanks Dusty. So would brushing the necks with plastic or bronze brushes before loading eliminate this "pop"? Or maybe coat the bullet or inside neck with graphite or sizing lube?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Thanks Dusty. So would brushing the necks with plastic or bronze brushes before loading eliminate this "pop"? Or maybe coat the bullet or inside neck with graphite or sizing lube?

I doubt it since i brush the necks on everything i load. I use a worn bronze brush. I have coated with the dry neck lube but it seems to make a carbon layer just like firing once the bullet irons it out

 

[whatsupdoc]

I pulled some 180 SMK bullets from 30-06 Remington cases that I had loaded
in the 1980's. The necks were perfectly clean and there was no welding of the bullets to the case.
There was however small spots of green corosion where the bullets were touching the powder as they were compressed loads.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

I wonder if moly coated bullets will cold wield after storage. Just something that popped up in my mind after reading this thread.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Saw "stuck bullets" the worse in 17 rem reloads, using Rem brass and Berger varmints. Some necks cracked(shooting) so I seated a few thousandth deeper and then pulled apart. Annealed reloaded, no cracking when fired.

 

[AJC]

I wonder if moly coated bullets will cold wield after storage. Just something that popped up in my mind after reading this thread.

I was just thinking the same. My dad passed and the 108 Molly amaxes and coated 155 lapua scanners sat for 3-5 years and bullet pull seamed unchanged. We both wet tumble so no carbon in the necks.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I wonder if moly coated bullets will cold wield after storage. Just something that popped up in my mind after reading this thread.

Yes they will. Always easy to set up a well labeled test