NF COMP & March HM Optics

[paulT]

Have read the march HM Glass gives improved image in lower light cloudy conditions compaired to the NF comp however i also read that the march HM not quite as Good as the NF Comp at capturing Fine subbtle mirage detail could anyone give their findings between both the march HM and NF Comp scopes for Longrange F Class Thanks.

 

[DngBat7]

What RKS said.^^. I have had both and feel they are both very very sharp. I ended up with the March HM tho.

 

[DBLNUT]

Have read the march HM Glass gives improved image in lower light cloudy conditions compaired to the NF comp however i also read that the march HM not quite as Good as the NF Comp at capturing Fine subbtle mirage detail could anyone give their findings between both the march HM and NF Comp scopes for Longrange F Class Thanks.

I have had 2 March HM. Sold both of them and went back to the Nighforce Competition.

 

[paulT]

Thanks for replies
So if the March HM glass cuts through the mirage a tad more than the Nightforce at Target are you guys using a spotting scope for watching fine mirage along with your March HM scopes.

 

[johara1]

We know the March holds point of impact, had a handful of NF. comps. that didn't..... You want bright better get a Sightron SVSS ED, that blows both out of the water. A 52 mm objective can not be brighter than a 56mm at the same power. I do think NF. rated the comp. higher than it is, Along side a 12-42 NXS the comp had to be at almost 50 to equal the NXS at 42....... jim

 

[paulT]

We know the March holds point of impact, had a handful of NF. comps. that didn't..... You want bright better get a Sightron SVSS ED, that blows both out of the water. A 52 mm objective can not be brighter than a 56mm at the same power. I do think NF. rated the comp. higher than it is, Along side a 12-42 NXS the comp had to be at almost 50 to equal the NXS at 42....... jim

I have a 12x42x NXS on my sport League Rifle which i bought back in early 90s and a Newer one only couple years old on my FTR Rifle however my eyes would probably now find the extra magnification with the NF Comp a good improvement for Longrange match shooting however i still making my mind up between the March HM or NF Comp for Longrange Shooting.

 

[paulT]

I have had 2 March HM. Sold both of them and went back to the Nighforce Competition.

May i ask why you switched from the March back to NF.

 

[johara1]

May i ask why you switched from the March back to NF.

They were the 10-60 x 52 and they did have enough light for me with a catarac... My range is in the woods and not enough light till noon. I sold both but both and they won a WO. or set a record. the Comps went down the road because they wouldn't hold point of a aim and terrible eye box, I like a fool kept trying to make them work but they were no NXS, BTW the NXS is the only scope I ever saw bullet holes at a 1000yds. Went to Sightron and 56mm March scopes plus got the eye fixed ..... jim

 

[paulT]

They were the 10-60 x 52 and they did have enough light for me with a catarac... My range is in the woods and not enough light till noon. I sold both but both and they won a WO. or set a record. the Comps went down the road because they wouldn't hold point of a aim and terrible eye box, I like a fool kept trying to make them work but they were no NXS, BTW the NXS is the only scope I ever saw bullet holes at a 1000yds. Went to Sightron and 56mm March scopes plus got the eye fixed ..... jim

Thanks for info Jim.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

They were the 10-60 x 52 and they did have enough light for me with a catarac... My range is in the woods and not enough light till noon. I sold both but both and they won a WO. or set a record. the Comps went down the road because they wouldn't hold point of a aim and terrible eye box, I like a fool kept trying to make them work but they were no NXS, BTW the NXS is the only scope I ever saw bullet holes at a 1000yds. Went to Sightron and 56mm March scopes plus got the eye fixed ..... jim

Just a note here: The March 10-60X52 is NOT an HM scope; it does not use the Super-ED lenses, instead it has a single ED glass lens element.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Thanks for replies
So if the March HM glass cuts through the mirage a tad more than the Nightforce at Target are you guys using a spotting scope for watching fine mirage along with your March HM scopes.

I use the March-X 10-60X56 HM on my F-TR rifle. I run it at 50X year-round in the Texas Gulf Coast region. I also use a Kowa non-ED glass as my spotting scope. I find that ED and especially Super ED glass is less affected by mirage than comparable magnification optics not using Super ED or ED glass. This allows me to be much more surgical in placing my shot, so that when I miss, it's not because I was not able to place the reticle where I wanted to.

I eschew ED/Super ED/Fluorite glass in my spotting scope BECAUSE I want to see all the mirage that I can to try to understand the conditions.

 

[Chuckhunter]

Paul, I recommend looking through both before you lay down your hard earned cash. I love my 10X60X56 March HM. and my other scope is an older NXS 12X42X56 with 1/8 min adjustments. As some have said the March is extremely clear but with a softer picture than the Comp. To my eye the Comp. is tough to beat for razor sharp clarity but the March, at least for me cuts the mirage better. I personally don't like to make a statement that one scope is better than the other because I'm not looking through your eyes. Hence the suggestion to look through each before you purchase, personally I think both are great scopes. Wish they made an NXS with at least 50X magnification, Super ED glass, and 1/8th min. clicks. I think then Jim and I would both be very happy.

 

[johara1]

Chuck, I made a statement that NF. Comp maybe over rated for power or just maybe the NXS was under rated....... ???..... The eye box on the NXS was the most forgiving one I ever had..... jim

 

[paulT]

I use the March-X 10-60X56 HM on my F-TR rifle. I run it at 50X year-round in the Texas Gulf Coast region. I also use a Kowa non-ED glass as my spotting scope. I find that ED and especially Super ED glass is less affected by mirage than comparable magnification optics not using Super ED or ED glass. This allows me to be much more surgical in placing my shot, so that when I miss, it's not because I was not able to place the reticle where I wanted to.

I eschew ED/Super ED/Fluorite glass in my spotting scope BECAUSE I want to see all the mirage that I can to try to understand the conditions.

Thanks for your detailed post Turbulent turtle
I also use a Kowa spotting scope with flurite Lens to watch Mirage when Shooting FTR so a Rifle scope with ED or Super ED Glass Sounds like a Great idea to cut through the Mirage at the Target whieslt using a spotting scope to pick up fine changes with Mirage.

 

[paulT]

Paul, I recommend looking through both before you lay down your hard earned cash. I love my 10X60X56 March HM. and my other scope is an older NXS 12X42X56 with 1/8 min adjustments. As some have said the March is extremely clear but with a softer picture than the Comp. To my eye the Comp. is tough to beat for razor sharp clarity but the March, at least for me cuts the mirage better. I personally don't like to make a statement that one scope is better than the other because I'm not looking through your eyes. Hence the suggestion to look through each before you purchase, personally I think both are great scopes. Wish they made an NXS with at least 50X magnification, Super ED glass, and 1/8th min. clicks. I think then Jim and I would both be very happy.

Thanks for the info Chuckhunter will indeed take a look at both scopes on the line in same Condition before making up mind
I totaly agree with your view with the 12x42x56 nxs if they offered it with 50x power i would probably buy as i never had an issue with both of my NXS over the years and the Build Quality is Second to none.

 

[DBLNUT]

May i ask why you switched from the March back to NF.

The Nightforce are incredibly brighter/clearer than the March HM.

 

[johara1]

The Nightforce are incredibly brighter/clearer than the March HM.

Now if your findings were at a 1000 ydsi. verses shorter ranges, plus if you shot free recoil and had to see the hit at 1000 and. 600 on clay birds you may just change your opinion Clear, seeing in heavy mirage, holding point of aim and a non critical eye box mean a lot.... jim

 

[KY_Windage]

Thanks for replies
So if the March HM glass cuts through the mirage a tad more than the Nightforce at Target are you guys using a spotting scope for watching fine mirage along with your March HM scopes.

Mirage is the bending of light rays by gases ("air") between you and the target. The gas acts like hundreds of vaporous lenses floating in the air, distorting the rays as they pass thru. The hotter the gas, the more unstable and variable it is, causing more disruption to the rays. The farther away the target is, the more of those "floating gaseous lenses" the rays must pass thru to get to you. The rays get disrupted (bent) by "gaseous lens" #1 at, say, 950 yds, then by gaseous lents #2 at 886, then by #3 at 804, and so on, which means #2 is taking a distorted picture (bundle of rays) and distorting it even more. Then #3 takes that doubly-distorted picture, distorts it some more and passes it on to #4. And so on.

The point being, that the disruption to the rays is happening at 950 yards, 886 yards, 804 yards, etc. There is no scope, no lens system, no lens coating, etc., that is going to "cut thru mirage" better than any other scope, lens system, etc., because to do that the scope would have to "unbend" light rays, which cannot be done. So, you can throw that "attribute" out the window. The only thing you can do to mitigate mirage is to either reduce magnification or wait for a hiatus, a moment when the gasses are distorting the rays the least. Reducing magnification does not do anything to fix the bent rays, it just causes you to notice the problem less.

The eyebox in any scope shrinks when you dial it up to high power (assuming the scope will even go up to high power). So yes, a Comp at 55x is tight to look through. That does not bother me because I want my eye to be perfectly centered when I touch off the round anyway. Moreover, all you have to do is turn the power down to 40 - 45x and the Comp is a dream to look through.

You break a March you are sending it to Japan. You break a Comp you are sending it to Idaho. The big Sightrons are great if you don't mind having a 3-pound pig on top your rifle.

I don't buy the "not holding zero" crap at all. I would have to believe that after many years of successfully making NXS's NF suddenly forgot how to do it with the Comp, their flagship target scope. Neither of my Comps has ever had its zero move, and none of my buddies' ever has either.

The reticles in Comps move when the scope moves in the rings or the rings move or flex, and that's it.

 

[johara1]

Mirage is the bending of light rays by gases ("air") between you and the target. The gas acts like hundreds of vaporous lenses floating in the air, distorting the rays as they pass thru. The hotter the gas, the more unstable and variable it is, causing more disruption to the rays. The farther away the target is, the more of those "floating gaseous lenses" the rays must pass thru to get to you. The rays get disrupted (bent) by "gaseous lens" #1 at, say, 950 yds, then by gaseous lents #2 at 886, then by #3 at 804, and so on, which means #2 is taking a distorted picture (bundle of rays) and distorting it even more. Then #3 takes that doubly-distorted picture, distorts it some more and passes it on to #4. And so on.

The point being, that the disruption to the rays is happening at 950 yards, 886 yards, 804 yards, etc. There is no scope, no lens system, no lens coating, etc., that is going to "cut thru mirage" better than any other scope, lens system, etc., because to do that the scope would have to "unbend" light rays, which cannot be done. So, you can throw that "attribute" out the window. The only thing you can do to mitigate mirage is to either reduce magnification or wait for a hiatus, a moment when the gasses are distorting the rays the least. Reducing magnification does not do anything to fix the bent rays, it just causes you to notice the problem less.

The eyebox in any scope shrinks when you dial it up to high power (assuming the scope will even go up to high power). So yes, a Comp at 55x is tight to look through. That does not bother me because I want my eye to be perfectly centered when I touch off the round anyway. Moreover, all you have to do is turn the power down to 40 - 45x and the Comp is a dream to look through.

You break a March you are sending it to Japan. You break a Comp you are sending it to Idaho. The big Sightrons are great if you don't mind having a 3-pound pig on top your rifle.

I don't buy the "not holding zero" crap at all. I would have to believe that after many years of successfully making NXS's NF suddenly forgot how to do it with the Comp, their flagship target scope. Neither of my Comps has ever had its zero move, and none of my buddies' ever has either.

The reticles in Comps move when the scope moves in the rings or the rings move or flex, and that's it.

I see you have never had to see the hits at long range to get a zero. It is also obvious that you never shot free recoil, if you hold the gun the NF. comp maybe the ticket. As far as getting a March fixed.... they don't go bad like the comp. five NF. comps went back and five came back fixed but they were still doing the same thing. Sightron ain't a 3 lb pig as you stated and they are a great scope and the hold the point aim.... jim

 

[Dub]

I see you have never had to see the hits at long range to get a zero. It is also obvious that you never shot free recoil, if you hold the gun the NF. comp maybe the ticket. As far as getting a March fixed.... they don't go bad like the comp. five NF. comps went back and five came back fixed but they were still doing the same thing. Sightron ain't a 3 lb pig as you stated and they are a great scope and the hold the point aim.... jim

No question where you stand on NF. Not everyone shares your view