New vs. Broken-in .22 RF Barrel Performance.

[Pa.Mike]

I was just curious as to what percentage would you expect to see in group improvement from a new to broken-in .22 rimfire barrel, using the same ammo of course ? Would you say 25% , 10% or even less ?

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I was just curious as to what percentage would you expect to see in group improvement from a new to broken-in .22 rimfire barrel, using the same ammo of course ? Would you say 25% , 10% or even less ?

if it is good quality barrel and the chambered correctly shouldn't need any break in. most, I seen shoot from the start. only after tuning do I see an improvement.

Lee

 

[butchlambert]

if it is good quality barrel and the chambered correctly shouldn't need any break in. most, I seen shoot from the start. only after tuning do I see an improvement.

Lee

Listen to Lee. It applies to CF also.

 

[TRSR8]

if it is good quality barrel and the chambered correctly shouldn't need any break in. most, I seen shoot from the start. only after tuning do I see an improvement.

Lee

I would agreed with you most of the time, Lilja’s for whatever reason often improve over time, I am working with one now and Gordon, over the years, has had several similar and often stated not to give up on one too early. Why….I wish I knew.

 

[dhagerty40]

I have found on Lilja Barrels, you do not need to do a break-in, But get the Barrel seasoned with the lube from the ammo you are shooting.

 

[xswanted]

I don't think "breaking in" is needed with a rimfire.

However I do believe they "season" with a specific ammo after a number of rounds.

 

[68Hoyt]

Huh , I thought Calfee had stated that at least some got better after a few thousand rounds
Didn’t the one guy on snipershide and RFC who took a new barrel bore scoped shot a control group , shot so many rounds , bore scoped , shot a group with the control group ammo and kept going for a few thousand rounds came up with the barrel was smoothing out and the groups evened out and tightened up a little ?

 

[1Merlin]

Aftermarket high $$ barrels are really smooth and polished usually... So less improvement with shooting. Cheap(er) production rifle barrel may improve considerable with use due to the "rough spots/finish" being worn down and polished out. Back in the Olden Days polishing bores was fairly common. As manufacturing processes have improved (unbelievably sometimes) lots of old methods and procedures are unnecessary.

 

[68Hoyt]

Calfee was building benchrest rifles
The guy on RFC / SH had an aftermarket barrel , Lija maybe

 

[TRSR8]

Aftermarket high $$ barrels are really smooth and polished usually... So less improvement with shooting. Cheap(er) production rifle barrel may improve considerable with use due to the "rough spots/finish" being worn down and polished out. Back in the Olden Days polishing bores was fairly common. As manufacturing processes have improved (unbelievably sometimes) lots of old methods and procedures are unnecessary.

No friend, they are not polished, in the slightest.
Most people have little idea the finish left in match hand lapped barrels…..it’s usually around 150-200 grit and you want that texture in the bore. You polish it…..one of the better ways to ruin a match barrel.

 

[wkdickinson]

I have had a very different experience. I built a new rifle on a RimX action last summer and I also had my 1413 rebarreled by Evelio McDonald at about the same time. Both have Shilen "ratchet" barrels on them. Both when new would take sometimes 20-25 rounds to bring the POI back to where it should be (the first shot was often 8" to 12" low). Then they would shoot good (CX). As they got more rounds on them the "cold bore" issue became less, until around 600 rounds. At that point both barrels started shooting very consistently, only required 3-5 shots to get the POI back - usually from a 'clean" barrel the first shot will be 1" low, then the second shot will be 3/4" low at 4 o'clock, the 3rd shot will usually be a 10 or an X.

They now have 1,500 - 2,000 rounds and shoot very consistently. So from personal experience I believe there is "breakin" required.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I would agreed with you most of the time, Lilja’s for whatever reason often improve over time, I am working with one now and Gordon, over the years, has had several similar and often stated not to give up on one too early. Why….I wish I knew.

Wait a minute now, I did say most not all
when I first wanted to re-barrel a rifle, I checked on the Lija's did some research and what I was reading is that yes, they were great barrels at one time, but some mentioned since most of the guys who were lapping barrels at Lija retired the quality had dropped off. this was 2012-2013. I heard recently that quality is back.

I went with benchmark and have not used anything else since. now I do have a Shilen Octagon which I am going to try. it will be interesting to see if I get the same results.
I do know this how the smith finishes the leade is extremely important on how it will shoot from the start and the future.

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I have had a very different experience. I built a new rifle on a RimX action last summer and I also had my 1413 rebarreled by Evelio McDonald at about the same time. Both have Shilen "ratchet" barrels on them. Both when new would take sometimes 20-25 rounds to bring the POI back to where it should be (the first shot was often 8" to 12" low). Then they would shoot good (CX). As they got more rounds on them the "cold bore" issue became less, until around 600 rounds. At that point both barrels started shooting very consistently, only required 3-5 shots to get the POI back - usually from a 'clean" barrel the first shot will be 1" low, then the second shot will be 3/4" low at 4 o'clock, the 3rd shot will usually be a 10 or an X.

They now have 1,500 - 2,000 rounds and shoot very consistently. So from personal experience I believe there is "breakin" required.

I remember you mentioning this in emails. again, some barrels need more rounds to get them settled when new.
Evelio has done barrel work for me my current 1411 is 8 years old now and can still put-up good numbers. but the barrels he did were benchmarks and they all shot from the start.

Lee

 

[Intell]

I’ve had a few new rimfire barrels that shot great from the get go, but it seemed they all shot a bit better or cut the wind better after they crossed the 2000-2500 round mark.

 

[TRSR8]

Wait a minute now, I did say most not all
when I first wanted to re-barrel a rifle, I checked on the Lija's did some research and what I was reading is that yes, they were great barrels at one time, but some mentioned since most of the guys who were lapping barrels at Lija retired the quality had dropped off. this was 2012-2013. I heard recently that quality is back.

I went with benchmark and have not used anything else since. now I do have a Shilen Octagon which I am going to try. it will be interesting to see if I get the same results.
I do know this how the smith finishes the leade is extremely important on how it will shoot from the start and the future.

Lee

Lee, we’re essentially saying the same thing.
While I know not everybody's experience I ‘d bet a fair amount of that Lilja opinion was from guys that gave up on them early, most guys want performance right from the get go.

 

[doclu60]

No friend, they are not polished, in the slightest.
Most people have little idea the finish left in match hand lapped barrels…..it’s usually around 150-200 grit and you want that texture in the bore. You polish it…..one of the better ways to ruin a match barrel.

Absolutely correct. I had a fairly accomplished RFBR shooter I was doing some testing with and he bore scoped one of my barrels. He said I had cleaning rod damage. When I investigated further, I found out that the linier scratches he thought was rod damage was in fact the marks left by the finish lap. On that particular brand of barrel, 180 grit SiC was the final lap. First lap was 120 grit aluminum oxide. Another MFG uses close to the same grit sizes in their lapping procedure. Those scratches are left there for a reason, lube retention. TRSR8 hit the nail on the head.

Scott

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee, we’re essentially saying the same thing.
While I know not everybody's experience I ‘d bet a fair amount of that Lilja opinion was from guys that gave up on them early, most guys want performance right from the get go.

Tim, you are probably right. some just need to be shot before you see the potential.

Lee

 

[Matt_3479]

I don’t know nearly as much as some but from my experiences I’ve seen both. I’ve had 7 aftermarket barrels. Some I’ve noticed shoot right out of the gate incredibly well, others seemed to almost smooth out and become more consistent after 1000-1500 rounds. Those barrels seemed to start a little funny, improve around 600 ish rounds and settle down around that 1000-1500 mark. I’ve also noticed some barrels prefer to be shot from clean barrels and some prefer seasoned barrels. I don’t shoot benchrest rimfire so my standards could be very different than others. Just what I’ve noticed.