New To Handloading...case inspection question (s) for AR-15 .223/5.56

[AuthenticShooter]

SOP is to "inspect cases for damage, cracked necks, signs of pressure, dents in the case, etc." Writers will say things like, "an AR will beat the heck out of brass, so I only go with______________. " As you all know, if you are new to handloading, the terminology is half the battle, and lack of experience often finds me wondering what I am looking at. What is a " sign of pressure". ( Cracked neck is easy) Here is an example from my first set of cases: Note the horizontal hash dings. They are on about 1/2 the cases and are visible before cleaning. Is my rifle - (Radical Firearms RF-15, dual chamber). causing this? Or is the brass weak? The cases are from the Frontier plinking 55gn FMJ rounds.

It would be nice to know what you experienced guys think as it would save me a lot of time if the case nicks DQ them before I do all the case prep. If it makes a difference, my goal in handloading is to simply build a more consistent round overall and to reduce cost so I can practice becoming a better shooter.

One other question - is there a reference guide that has pictures of what the most common case damages are, or a thread here like " the ultimate AR-15 .223 reloading thread" that I could read?

Thanks in advance

 

[GLShooter]

The marks are from ejection as the brass may be hitting the edge of the port or the shell deflector. You could round the ejector to change the ejection angle slightly but in long run these marks don't hurt anything. Some rifles really ding them up. The fix for that that I use is just a 7/8" square of velcro on the deflector.

Here is nice little article that discusses AR case pressure etc. Follow the manuals and you should be on safe ground in 99.9% of your loading endeavors.

http://www.mssblog.com/2018/03/08/reloaders-corner-pressure-signs/

Greg

 

[AuthenticShooter]

Thanks GL, that was reassuring and a big help, link was great too.

 

[mousegunner]

Check rims to make sure they're not bent from violent extraction whether it's from your rifle or its range brass which you can throw out or fix your rifle to prevent bent rims. I've noticed this mostly in .308 brass not so much .223.

 

[AuthenticShooter]

Check rims to make sure they're not bent from violent extraction whether it's from your rifle or its range brass which you can throw out or fix your rifle to prevent bent rims. I've noticed this mostly in .308 brass not so much .223.

I've seen a few that look like someone took a pocket knife to them...being new my rule is " when in doubt throw it out".

 

[Oso]

Those marks look like the cases just barely touched the edge/lip along rear of ejection port. If they were caused from hitting the Deflector the dents tend to be more severe. The next time you shoot the rifle pay attention to what position the rifle is throwing the brass (what hour and how far back). If the brass is landing in the 4pm-5pm position then most likely hitting lip of ejection port.

AR15 and most other semi-auto rifles are rough on brass. The speed/force of extraction means that there is a lot of torque of the extractor rim, the radial bolt lugs on AR15 cut lines, creases and nicks into cases during feeding and extraction. The spent brass gets flung out of the receiver only to then slam into the deflector (usually causing a flat spot on case mouth), and then the cases impact hard off the ground and go spinning away on the concrete, which causes dents, scratches, and other irregularities. Not to mention the potential for unwanted case expansion at the bottom of case.

There is a lot of case prep work to do on cases fired through gas gun as compared to relative ease of a bolt rifle. One of the essential components for reloading for AR15 is a good FL Sizing Die and a Case Gage to confirm that each cartridges fall within SAMI specs... AR's jam really hard and there is certain risk while "mortaring" your rifle in order to get the live round to release from the chamber. Only takes a second to drop a reloaded cartridge into the Cas Gage to make sure it easily slides both in and out.

 

[jelenko]

Just fyi. Reading the blog that's linked above, I just ordered go/no go gauges for the AR 15 firing pin hole.
I already have case 'headspace' gauges and a micrometer to measure the bolt tail. For the price of the go/no go gauges, it seems a no brainer.

 

[AuthenticShooter]

.... One of the essential components for reloading for AR15 is a good FL Sizing Die and a Case Gage to confirm that each cartridges fall within SAMI specs... AR's jam really hard and there is certain risk while "mortaring" your rifle in order to get the live round to release from the chamber. Only takes a second to drop a reloaded cartridge into the Cas Gage to make sure it easily slides both in and out.

When I was getting all my reloading stuff together, I ordered some full length dies from RCBS. The as I read and researched more and more, I learned that "the book loads often don't take into consideration the needs of the AR platform." Crimping for example. So I called RCBS and they suggested I use the ".223 / 5.56 x 45 Small baser Taper/Crimp Die Set". Then I found a link here ( which made me sign up, as I had been searching a lot for something just like this) a link to Nosler reloading .223 (AR-15) and sure enough the loads are WAY different, sometimes by a couple of grains. Seems like every time I am about ready to start loading my first rounds I find something new, or need another tool also - now I need a case gauge and go/no go gauge for the firing pin ! Sheessh getting Nickle and dimed but hey if you are gonna do it, do it right.

 

[Oso]

Don't over-think it. Just like any new activity there are some core tools/accessories that you will need. Over the long run you will save money on buying ammunition, but there is an up-front setup cost for buying the equipment that you need to do the reloading.

If you haven't already bought a tumbling/cleaning equipment then you will want to go with a wet tumbling (steel pin) setup. Semi-auto rifles are very dirty, and exceptionally dirty when fired through a suppressor. Also, get a descent size magnet (Harbor Freight) that you can quickly run across the dirty brass to pick out any steel cases before you tumble the dirty brass.

Assume all range brass you pick up and all 5.56 ammo you buy has a military crimp on the primer. Just swage everything to play it safe. You can either get a Swage Die to use with your press or a stand-alone unit like the Dillon SuperSwager.

I like the WIlson Case Gage. It will tell you is the case is within SAMI Spec,. If there are any burs/damage to the extractor rim or swelling at base of case then it won't fully seat into case gage. If the neck is out of alignment then case won't fit into case gage. Also, the case gage will tell you if the case length is within the acceptable min-max length. Lastly, it is really easy to check for proud primers (not fully seated) when cartridge is inside case gage by swiping finger across back of gage....high primers stick out.

You are going to need a bullet puller (Kinetic Hammer or Bullet Pulling Die for your press) because sooner or later you are going to load some rounds that will not pass the Case Gage. Never use the shellholder to hold a live cartridge in a Kinetic Hammer.

Always bring the cleaning rod to the range with you.... stuck cases sometimes happen and always at the worst time.

It is always nice to have micrometers and Hornady OAL gage or similar items, BUT this is not as necessary with an AR15. Your limitation is Magazine Length (2.260") which means your Max COAL for ammo loaded for your AR15 is 2.26" or shorter for more reliable feeding. Seldom is an AR chambered short.... usually tend to be long.

You will want to trim cases to a uniform length after resizing. You might consider the Lee Precision Power Trimmer that screws into your press and you can use a powerdrill to spin the trimmer. This cutter will also chamfer the case mouth at same time.

Start simple - components are limited these days. There are a number of well-proven and economic bullets available, such as Hornady 55gr FMJ, that are reliable and easy to load. There are a dozen powders that are common and well proven in the cartridge. If you have your choice of primers then either CCI 41 or a Small Magnum Primer. Otherwise, you can make do with a standard small rifle primer.

 

[Oso]

In theory you shouldn't need a Go/No Go gages for a AR15 that you bought off the shelf, unless you suspect it is having issues. That said you have a Radical Firearms, which has been known in past to have had some QC issues with their guns.

The most common issue with reloading for an AR15 is to make certain you properly resize the entire case (Full Length Resize). This will include a minor shoulder bump (pushing back the shoulder) to ensure adequate clearance in the chamber so the rifle runs smoothly (no binding and easy case feeding/ejection).

All of the other gear is to just make sure you can do this consistently. Good Luck!!!

 

[AuthenticShooter]

Man, you guys are so awesome. Thank you so much. al your comments and feedback are simple and to the point, helpful, and not a hint of condescension to the noob, so welcoming.

 

[jelenko]

When I was getting all my reloading stuff together, I ordered some full length dies from RCBS. The as I read and researched more and more, I learned that "the book loads often don't take into consideration the needs of the AR platform." Crimping for example. So I called RCBS and they suggested I use the ".223 / 5.56 x 45 Small baser Taper/Crimp Die Set". Then I found a link here ( which made me sign up, as I had been searching a lot for something just like this) a link to Nosler reloading .223 (AR-15) and sure enough the loads are WAY different, sometimes by a couple of grains. Seems like every time I am about ready to start loading my first rounds I find something new, or need another tool also - now I need a case gauge and go/no go gauge for the firing pin ! Sheessh getting Nickle and dimed but hey if you are gonna do it, do it right.

Sorry. My comment about go/no go gauges for the firing pin hole aren't related to reloading. They are about the fact that I only change bolts when the bolt is out of spec.

 

[Oso]

Man, you guys are so awesome. Thank you so much. al your comments and feedback are simple and to the point, helpful, and not a hint of condescension to the noob, so welcoming.

We all started out not knowing much. Some of us were fortunate to have a mentor and others just figured it out the hard way. I have a drawer of equipment that I bought early on that turned out to be not exactly what I needed or solutions looking for a problem. This is common experience for most reloaders until they have enough practice to know what works. On this Forum you have a wide mix of shooters both in experience and style of shooting. There are guys who just like to plink, varminters, dynamic shooting competitors, and benchrest/F-Class shooters. Depending on the type of rifle and the style of shooting, each group's process for reloading may vary. Regardless of type of shooting, there are some essential steps in reloading, and then there is some extreme OCD. Keep this in mind as you read threads... the process/procedure for a guy focused on a 3" group at 1000 yards is totally different then the guy looking for a good deer hunting load for 100 yards.

There is essential gear that you will always need. Which version of each component you buy will be based on your budget. The other deciding factors are the volume of reloading that you plan to do and the variety of calibers you plan to reload for. To start just focus on one caliber, such as .223, and get to familiar with all of the step for case preparation and then reloading. After you are very comfortable you can then use this experience on the next cartridge.

 

[jelenko]

Depending on the type of rifle and the style of shooting, each group's process for reloading may vary.

++

 

[Hohn]

When I was getting all my reloading stuff together, I ordered some full length dies from RCBS. The as I read and researched more and more, I learned that "the book loads often don't take into consideration the needs of the AR platform." Crimping for example. So I called RCBS and they suggested I use the ".223 / 5.56 x 45 Small baser Taper/Crimp Die Set". Then I found a link here ( which made me sign up, as I had been searching a lot for something just like this) a link to Nosler reloading .223 (AR-15) and sure enough the loads are WAY different, sometimes by a couple of grains. Seems like every time I am about ready to start loading my first rounds I find something new, or need another tool also - now I need a case gauge and go/no go gauge for the firing pin ! Sheessh getting Nickle and dimed but hey if you are gonna do it, do it right.

There are very few ARs chambered in a 223 saami chamber so the neutered Nosler loads don’t apply. Likewise for the Sierra 223 AR15 loads. The common 5.56 or Wylde chambers on most AR15s can easily accommodate the “bolt gun” load data for a saami .223.

 

[Hohn]

SOP is to "inspect cases for damage, cracked necks, signs of pressure, dents in the case, etc." Writers will say things like, "an AR will beat the heck out of brass, so I only go with______________. " As you all know, if you are new to handloading, the terminology is half the battle, and lack of experience often finds me wondering what I am looking at. What is a " sign of pressure". ( Cracked neck is easy) Here is an example from my first set of cases: Note the horizontal hash dings. They are on about 1/2 the cases and are visible before cleaning. Is my rifle - (Radical Firearms RF-15, dual chamber). causing this? Or is the brass weak? The cases are from the Frontier plinking 55gn FMJ rounds.

It would be nice to know what you experienced guys think as it would save me a lot of time if the case nicks DQ them before I do all the case prep. If it makes a difference, my goal in handloading is to simply build a more consistent round overall and to reduce cost so I can practice becoming a better shooter.

One other question - is there a reference guide that has pictures of what the most common case damages are, or a thread here like " the ultimate AR-15 .223 reloading thread" that I could read?

Thanks in advance

Those dings are minor and inconsequential.

ARs can ding up brass on ejection. They weren’t designed with reloading in mind.

You said your rifle is “dual” chambered. That’s actually impossible. It’s got only one chamber. That chamber might allow multiple variations of ammo (ie 5.56 allows use of .223), but it’s still one chamber. Is this a 5.56 NATO chamber?

The NATO chamber being designed for fully automatic fire, it has “generous” clearances that are hard on brass at higher pressures. If you push pressure, brass has a short life—2-3 firings. You’ll note a substantial amount of sizing effort on the brass despite only being a small .223 case. Either live with lower pressure loads or shorter brass life.

 

[AuthenticShooter]

You said your rifle is “dual” chambered. That’s actually impossible. It’s got only one chamber. That chamber might allow multiple variations of ammo (ie 5.56 allows use of .223), but it’s still one chamber. Is this a 5.56 NATO chamber?

Yeah what I meant was the barrel caliber stamp says "DUAL" meaning either .223 / 5.56 can be shot with it - and I have. But that begs another question(s). I am sorting my cases by .223 and 5.56 and removing the primer crimp. Inspection of the .223 cases show some of them look crimped also. So if they do, I have been removing / putting a slight bevel on them as well. What load are you guys using when handloading these cases....same whether it is .223 or 5.56 ?

I am not trying to to get crazy accurate....I am a new shooter and need technique to improve before I get to nuts. Sorta like a new golfer spending $2,000 on a set of irons. It's not worth it. I just want consistency out to about 100-150 yds to be able to hit center mass on an animal or in self defense. For example, my best groups with off the shelf cartridges in my 6.5 Creedmoor are about 2" at 100 yards shooting off my stand tri-pod - and I still managed to get my first deer on my first hunt.

 

[AuthenticShooter]

.....The next time you shoot the rifle pay attention to what position the rifle is throwing the brass (what hour and how far back). If the brass is landing in the 4pm-5pm position then most likely hitting lip of ejection port.

Shot 30 rounds yesterday...brass is being ejected about the 2 o'clock position.

 

[Oso]

Typically, AR15's are over-gassed and have tendency to fling brass at 4-5 o'clock position and 10 feet away. Usually you get the 2o'clock position is rifle is using a suppressor or with the aid of adjustable gas block (turned down gas to only what is needed).

Interesting - That is nice that your factory rifle is throwing at the 2o'clock position. How strong/far is it throwing the brass? The reason I ask is that without a adjustable gas block, the cases should be getting flung a pretty good distance and not just a couple of feet. If it isn't robust or decent distance then your Radical might have a gas block alignment issue that may/may not ever become an issue. Just somthing to keep in mind.

 

[AuthenticShooter]

. How strong/far is it throwing the brass? The reason I ask is that without a adjustable gas block, the cases should be getting flung a pretty good distance and not just a couple of feet. If it isn't robust or decent distance then your Radical might have a gas block alignment issue that may/may not ever become an issue. Just somthing to keep in mind.

Our range benches have metal top. I place a large padded moving blanket on the bench and spread out about four feet on each side of my station - protects my gear and the brass doesn't bounce.....about 1/2 the brass clears the blanket and front edge of the bench and they land out in front of the firing ling in the grass...so I am guessing maybe 5 feet or so.