New To Annealing- Post anneal sizing ball is tough

[savagedasher]

Ever time I use the ball the resistance it takes changes the shoulder also . Any donut that is there it moves the outside of the neck also . Larry

 

[spife7980]

I used to set them up in a block to spray way back but I didnt notice any issues when I switched to the bag and shake method but the bag and shake method is way less hassle to me plus it keeps my blocks from getting nasty with multiple sprays building up, it used to get to the point that I hated touching them or having to wash them. I already do let the lube dry, shoulders dent too easily if you dont. I never thought about dipping the necks first and then putting them into the bag to spray but I dont know why it couldnt work. Surely the dry lube has enough stick still to handle a tad of jostling while the outside gets coated.

I have the normal nonhoned redding full die, dont have any measurements here accessible right now for what my brass goes to but it squeezes them down to minimum saami spec or there abouts, something like .008 smaller than my expander ball just pulling what could be crap number out of the back of my mind which is "too much" but it also has never been an issue until this point and I have 20 firings on some of these remington brass pieces and 10 on all my lapuas. Thats why I use the expander ball. I never noticed any issues with concentricity thus far and doughnuts arent an issue. Its only now post anneal that Im having an issue.

But I think it got pinned correctly as what used to be a good naturally existing carbon lube is now a cooked on crusty diamond lube. I just didnt think that it would change it that much but I guess 750 degrees is quite hot. The little smokes that come out the necks should have been my first indicator that its enough to cook the stuff.

 

[T-shooter]

Ever time I use the ball the resistance it takes changes the shoulder also . Any donut that is there it moves the outside of the neck also . Larry

Never had that problem but I will watch for it. Only once I remember resizing a .308 and the case got stretched out too long. I may not have used lubricant, may have been over annealed, or it may have had a donut.

 

[T-shooter]

I used to set them up in a block to spray way back but I didnt notice any issues when I switched to the bag and shake method but the bag and shake method is way less hassle to me plus it keeps my blocks from getting nasty with multiple sprays building up, it used to get to the point that I hated touching them or having to wash them. I already do let the lube dry, shoulders dent too easily if you dont. I never thought about dipping the necks first and then putting them into the bag to spray but I dont know why it couldnt work. Surely the dry lube has enough stick still to handle a tad of jostling while the outside gets coated.

I have the normal nonhoned redding full die, dont have any measurements here accessible right now for what my brass goes to but it squeezes them down to minimum saami spec or there abouts, something like .008 smaller than my expander ball just pulling what could be crap number out of the back of my mind which is "too much" but it also has never been an issue until this point and I have 20 firings on some of these remington brass pieces and 10 on all my lapuas. Thats why I use the expander ball. I never noticed any issues with concentricity thus far and doughnuts arent an issue. Its only now post anneal that Im having an issue.

But I think it got pinned correctly as what used to be a good naturally existing carbon lube is now a cooked on crusty diamond lube. I just didnt think that it would change it that much but I guess 750 degrees is quite hot. The little smokes that come out the necks should have been my first indicator that its enough to cook the stuff.

Easy to check. Pull the ball and shaft out, size a case and measure the outside of the neck, then do it again with the ball in place on the same case.

Any lube in the necks will get baked on. They should be cleaned first.

 

[T-shooter]

I used to set them up in a block to spray way back but I didnt notice any issues when I switched to the bag and shake method but the bag and shake method is way less hassle to me plus it keeps my blocks from getting nasty with multiple sprays building up, it used to get to the point that I hated touching them or having to wash them. I already do let the lube dry, shoulders dent too easily if you dont. I never thought about dipping the necks first and then putting them into the bag to spray but I dont know why it couldnt work. Surely the dry lube has enough stick still to handle a tad of jostling while the outside gets coated.

I have the normal nonhoned redding full die, dont have any measurements here accessible right now for what my brass goes to but it squeezes them down to minimum saami spec or there abouts, something like .008 smaller than my expander ball just pulling what could be crap number out of the back of my mind which is "too much" but it also has never been an issue until this point and I have 20 firings on some of these remington brass pieces and 10 on all my lapuas. Thats why I use the expander ball. I never noticed any issues with concentricity thus far and doughnuts arent an issue. Its only now post anneal that Im having an issue.

But I think it got pinned correctly as what used to be a good naturally existing carbon lube is now a cooked on crusty diamond lube. I just didnt think that it would change it that much but I guess 750 degrees is quite hot. The little smokes that come out the necks should have been my first indicator that its enough to cook the stuff.

Here is an instructional video from Sinclair on their Imperial dry lube:

I do the same thing except use Hornady Unique on the outside of the cases which is similar. If you can see it on the surface, it's too much.

 

[spife7980]

Easy to check. Pull the ball and shaft out, size a case and measure the outside of the neck, then do it again with the ball in place on the same case.
Any lube in the necks will get baked on. They should be cleaned first.

Yeah, I have done that, I just dont have the measurements with me here at work to reference. .008 is what comes to mind though.
I vibrate and anneal, there isnt any additional lube application at that point. Just the cob dust and carbon residue from previous firing that hasnt been vibrated off but apparently is getting cooked off.

 

[Richard Coody]

I anneal and ultrasonic clean about every 5 firings. Replace the carbon removed during sizing and bullet seating with imperial dry neck lube

Otherwise i tumble in corn cob media to leave the carbon in place

 

[spife7980]

I wish I would have done the steps one at a time rather than the full gauntlet all at once to see what actually had the biggest effect but they felt great this go around. They felt as smooth as they did before I began annealing.

I replaced the expander ball with the floating carbide, brushed the necks and used the graphite lube. I think the carbide probably made the biggest difference. I did 4-5 dipping graphite each time and noticed that they were coming out super gross so I stopped doing it every case. I got to 7 cases before they would stop coming out with a bit of resisdual graphite mess from on the shoulders left over from the prior cases and I could feel a slight bit of resistance that coincided with coming out clean so I began to dip every 5th. I guess with the one shot on them it picks up a bunch more lube than just bare metal which allows for the accumulation that gets deposited on subsequent cases. Even without the graphite on case 6-7 it still wasnt any where near what they were when I was driven to start this thread which is what pushed me to the carbide being the biggest difference.

I dont think brushing really did anything. I think I got maybe 2 little flakes to show up on the paper towel I brushed over and I would say that was more than likely just tumbler something or other still in the case.

 

[savagedasher]

Why is a expander ball needed? If the internal size needs to be bigger don't size the od as much. Larry

 

[spife7980]

Why is a expander ball needed? If the internal size needs to be bigger don't size the od as much. Larry

Well then you pay me to ship a die to you for you to hone out to the proper dimension and then ship it back or buy me a new die with bushings. Until that point in time I will continue to use the expander ball for the obvious reasons that we've already gone over in the thread.

 

[savagedasher]

Well then you pay me to ship a die to you for you to hone out to the proper dimension and then ship it back or buy me a new die with bushings. Until that point in time I will continue to use the expander ball for the obvious reasons that we've already gone over in the thread.

How is it if I was going to ship you anything it would be some expander ball . lol Larry

 

[SheepDog]

I use carbide expander balls on my neck sizing dies and have never found a need for lube. Some lubes will hold dirt and dust particles that can scratch both the ball and the shell. The carbide expanders came with instructions to keep them clean and not to use lubricant.

 

[spife7980]

I use carbide expander balls on my neck sizing dies and have never found a need for lube. Some lubes will hold dirt and dust particles that can scratch both the ball and the shell. The carbide expanders came with instructions to keep them clean and not to use lubricant.

Well I full size and the entire rest of the case needs lube so... it gets lubed.

 

[spife7980]

How is it if I was going to ship you anything it would be some expander ball . lol Larry

I must be misunderstanding you because I have no idea what youre trying to say here. I have a normal redding 223 FL, which sizes the neck too much so it needs an expander ball. The old was tight, the new carbide glides easily, problem solved.

 

[jimbires]

when brushing the inside of the neck , I don't think the brushing does any cleaning . I believe the brushing does some mild polishing . the brushing and graphite took care of my problem .