New to 223 Flat Base Bullets

[Camper]

I recently bought some flat base bullets, Hornady 60gr Vmax. I put one on a neck to see if it would be tighter without the boat tails I usually use and it wasn't just tight, there is no wiggle room to get it to even balance on the neck. I read that chamfering would help this, but is that a good idea? It didn't work in the least when I tried it a few turns inside the neck, but if I kept going and shaved a lot off the inside of the neck, I guess it probably would. But how smart is that? Seems like a terrible idea. Is the M die the answer? I have a universal expander but I am leaning towards the M die cause it looks like I can go a little further down the neck and not worry about expanding as much as I would probably expand it with the universal expander. I see if I go to far there it will expand even more for hard cast bullets.

To those that use this M die for flat base bullets, do you just go deep enough for it to balance the bullet like a boat tail or do you go the full distance just prior to where it will expand more for hard cast? I don't think this should have any affect on crimping with the M die, but let me know if there is any, I don't want to assume.

I'm disappointed I didn't foresee this ahead of time. What I do load, I load well, but I feel there have been a lot of things lately that I should have known about that I didn't have a clue about. I have good loads with 60gr TMKs, only in the bolt action. I'm looking to load the 60gr Vmax for a 24 inch bolt action 1:9 and for a 16 inch AR 1:7. I plan to start with H335 and maybe CFE223 afterwards when I complete separate loads for each with the H335. Any other info would be welcome.

 

[MisterHelix]

My .223 brass gets a significant chamfer when it’s trimmed in the Giraud.

Flat base bullets still don’t balance, so I have to ride them up into the press with my fingertips.

I like boat tails better just for that reason alone.

 

[Daddycaddie67]

I had the same problem with the 62 Nosler varmint bullet. luckily I had just bought the Frankford arsenal bullet seater set, just drop a bullet onto the die and pull the Handel. Die is micro adjustable for seating depth. I believe RCBS makes a seater die with a window that you can drop a bullet into? Food for thought. E

 

[Camper]

I had the same problem with the 62 Nosler varmint bullet. luckily I had just bought the Frankford arsenal bullet seater set, just drop a bullet onto the die and pull the Handel. Die is micro adjustable for seating depth. I believe RCBS makes a seater die with a window that you can drop a bullet into? Food for thought. E

So this will keep the bullet aligned and will not shave any off the base of the bullet either? Seems like it has to be a little rough on the bottom of the bullet. But I'll be willing to give it a shot.

 

[topclass2017]

I have seated flat based bullets in both .222 and 5.56 without issue, both in Redding dies and inline (arbor press). As stated above, I also ride the bullet into the die, so the process is a little slower.

 

[mousegunner]

One word,
NOE Expander plugs...
No wait! 3 words NOE Expander plugs.

 

[Camper]

My .223 brass gets a significant chamfer when it’s trimmed in the Giraud.

Flat base bullets still don’t balance, so I have to ride them up into the press with my fingertips.

I like boat tails better just for that reason alone.
View attachment 1494581

That is what I was worried about doing. Seems like a lot of wear on the inside. So you've had no issues with shavings on the flat base bullets?

 

[MisterHelix]

That is what I was worried about doing. Seems like a lot of wear on the inside. So you've had no issues with shavings on the flat base bullets?

Well lots of folks use trimmers that chamfer like that, so it must not be the worst.

What are you using to chamfer and deburr currently? When I loaded a bunch of flat base 30 cal noslers for 300blk I still had the rcbs hand deburring tool. You can get a pretty good chamfer with that.

I do not really have issues with flat based bullets, though I don’t happen to use them often. I don’t think I’ve ever loaded flat bases in .223, come to think about it.

I’m also using 4x fired lake city brass and crimping the part that’s chamfered anyway, so, I dunno.

(Almost) Nothing lasts forever, I guess.

 

[LiveFire]

My 223 loading is for an ar15. I am not requiring benchrest accuracy. I use Hornady dies. The seater die has a floating bullet alignment sleeve that seems to work really well. I do seat quite a bit of flat base bullets in 223 and in 6x45. Both with hornady dies. I chamfer with an rcbs hand tool that looks like a rocket ship. Nothing fancy. Seems to work well.

 

[Camper]

Well lots of folks use trimmers that chamfer like that, so it must not be the worst.

What are you using to chamfer and deburr currently? When I loaded a bunch of flat base 30 cal noslers for 300blk I still had the rcbs hand deburring tool. You can get a pretty good chamfer with that.

I do not really have issues with flat based bullets, though I don’t happen to use them often. I don’t think I’ve ever loaded flat bases in .223, come to think about it.

I’m also using 4x fired lake city brass and crimping the part that’s chamfered anyway, so, I dunno.

(Almost) Nothing lasts forever, I guess.

I currently use the lyman case prep express and their xpress trimmer too. I have manual tools too. I used the rcbs manual chamfer and deburr earlier but I knew I was not going to get deep with that. The one on the lyman xpress is the vld and that would get deeper.

I've never used a flat base before. I'm getting very low on my 64grain TGKs and 60 grain TMKs and I heard good things about the vmax so I stocked up on a bunch. I think I have a few good options to go with from the forum. Thanks for helping out.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

The Lyman M die is a variation of the NOE expander plugs. There are dies with the floating inner sleeve that do a good job of aligning flat base bullets with the case mouth. There are also a version with a window you drop your bullet that works well with flat bast bullets. Or just guide it up into the die carefully!

Frank

 

[mac86951]

Question, what chamfer tool angle do you use? I find common VLD angle tools perform poorly with flat based, instead go for "old school" 45 degree tools.

 

[mousegunner]

I use the NOE expanders on 9mm and .45 ACP. Haven't tried on my .223. I chamfer the case mouth and use a Hornaday seater but I use BTHPs for across the course shooting and 1/4 to 1/2 MOA is good enough for that type of shooting.

 

[Camper]

Question, what chamfer tool angle do you use? I find common VLD angle tools perform poorly with flat based, instead go for "old school" 45 degree tools.

I have the VLD and the 45 degree angle one. I thought the opposite which is why I tried the 45 degree first. I am so glad I started with boat tails. lol I would have been stumped from the get go. But then again I would have probably figured it out by now. lol

 

[DiRTY DOG]

Get a seater die with a window and sleeve, like the RCBS Matchmaster. Super easy to load flat base and 17-22 cal bullets etc, just drop the bullet into the window and pull the press handle.

 

[Camper]

The Lyman M die is a variation of the NOE expander plugs. There are dies with the floating inner sleeve that do a good job of aligning flat base bullets with the case mouth. There are also a version with a window you drop your bullet that works well with flat bast bullets. Or just guide it up into the die carefully!

Frank

I'm going to give the Lyman M a shot when it comes in. I noticed that the NOE plugs are designed to be .001 over the bullet size. The closest size I see is the .226. So I'm wondering if that is solely for cast bullets? I know they are usually .001 larger than jacketed bullets. I have little experience with cast. My only experience with cast bullets is 45-70. I would have already ordered the NOE plug if it said .225. I don't want to assume anything so would the .226 be too much for jacketed bullets and be only for cast bullets. I looked for some wording about jacketed flat base but didn't see any.

 

[Camper]

Get a seater die with a window and sleeve, like the RCBS Matchmaster. Super easy to load flat base and 17-22 cal bullets etc, just drop the bullet into the window and pull the press handle.

View attachment 1494765

Thanks for this info. I have mostly rcbs dies, but I have all redding micrometer seaters for my bottlenecks right now. This could be a good permanent addition for flat base 223... and probably everything else too.

 

[Camper]

Get a seater die with a window and sleeve, like the RCBS Matchmaster. Super easy to load flat base and 17-22 cal bullets etc, just drop the bullet into the window and pull the press handle.

View attachment 1494765

I typed in the RCBS Matchmaster Super and couldn't find it till I finally realized there was a period before Super. lol

This one I found on Midway is the Matchmaster Competition. Is this the one you are recommending. This one has the seating window and bullet retaining system and that I would think checks the boxes, but i want to be sure. Thanks in advance.

RCBS MatchMaster Competition 223 Remington Bullet Seating Die

What sets the MatchMaster seating die apart from the competition is the bullet seating window with bullet retaining system. Simply place the bullet in...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[K22]

I have shot hundreds of 60 Vmax bullets and have had no issues at all with shaving the jackets. These bullets are extremely accurate in my 223 8" twist Tikka's, 1/4 to 1/2 moa.

I use standard RCBS FL die with a polished expander ball, the specific expander size depending on the brand of cases and rifle I am loading for. I have never had to use special dies to seat flat base bullets in a variety of brands of cases. However, the recommendation in post 15 is worth considering.

On virgin cases and after trimming, I chamfer inside and out with a standard RCBS chamfer tool which provide a slight bevel on the inside of the neck. I've never had to overdo it to seat flat base bullets.

When seating the bullet, I guide the bullet with thumb and finger to align the bullet as it enters the seating die. I seat the bullet about 1/4 inch, rotate the case and complete the seating process.

If you expand the neck enough and align the bullet with the case as you began to seat you should not have a problem unless something else is going on such as an alignment issue with the seating die or shell holder off center, etc.

 

[Camper]

I have shot hundreds of 60 Vmax bullets and have had no issues at all with shaving the jackets. These bullets are extremely accurate in my 223 8" twist Tikka's, 1/4 to 1/2 moa.

I use standard RCBS FL die with a polished expander ball, the specific expander size depending on the brand of cases and rifle I am loading for. I have never had to use special dies to seat flat base bullets in a variety of brands of cases. However, the recommendation in post 15 is worth considering.

After on virgin cases and after trimming, I chamfer inside and out with a standard RCBS chamfer tool which provide a slight bevel on the inside of the neck. I've never had to overdo it to seat flat base bullets.

When seating the bullet, I guide the bullet with thumb and finger to align the bullet as it enters the seating die. I seat the bullet about 1/4 inch, rotate the case and complete the seating process.

If you expand the neck enough and align the bullet with the case as you began to seat you should not have a problem unless something else is going on such as an alignment issue with the seating die or shell holder off center, etc.

Looks like my chamfering has been light compared to what I have seen in Post 2 MisterHelix and by what you are saying. What led me to even post about this was that I could not see getting the bullet to stay balanced at all on the mouth and that any movement raising the ram would have it tilted. But definitely going to consider the Matchmaster in post 15. Seems like a good thing to get on Cyber Monday.