New shooter in UBR

[ttfreestyle]

6ppc with 68 class bullets or 6br with 105 class. For a new shooter starting in UBR benchrest score matches which would be the most forgiving while trying to learn at 100/200 yards? Not wanting to debate caliber vs caliber , just wondering if one would be better to start with to get form and start this thing called wind reading. Thanks for any replies

 

[johnmyers]

Ppc

 

[hepburn45110]

6ppc with 68 class bullets or 6br with 105 class. For a new shooter starting in UBR benchrest score matches which would be the most forgiving while trying to learn at 100/200 yards? Not wanting to debate caliber vs caliber , just wondering if one would be better to start with to get form and start this thing called wind reading. Thanks for any replies

The BR. Easier to tune. Factory brass available. Barrel life is better. Gives you time to learn the wind instead of learning everything that goes with a PPC.

 

[DeltaBravo]

6BR with a 13 or 14 twist barrel will let you shoot those 68 grain pills from jammed to "off" jam. I shoot a Shilen DGV setup with a 14-twist, 4-groove barrel, Barts 68BTs, LT-32 powder, BR-4 primers. I retire my barrels at 2000 rounds even tho they are still shooting (it's a preventive maintenance thing). With the UBR target system, you will be very competitive against in score shooting and you'll have a pretty fair chance against all those 30BRs in IBS/NBRSA score shooting, at least locally (I was high score for 2015 at Austin Rifle Club with a 250/22X and I'm the only one shooting a 6BR - everyone else was shooting a 30BR or 6PPC or a 257 or even a 30-40 Craig. The hardest part about shooting is learning to read the wind and you need flags for that and some time behind the trigger!

Good luck, but realize you just got yourself involved in an addictive sport!

Dennis

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

There's always disagreement when in some form or fashion, a 6ppc is not hailed as the greatest and best in all things accuracy. It's been my experience that the 6ppc and typical powders used in it make it harder to tune than a 6br with its typical powders. Granted, there is a wealth of knowledge and an entire industry built around this case. But for a beginner, I don't see enough difference in accuracy potential to say that the ppc is an absolute in terms of being better. The best shooters are also the best at knowing what to do, and when, to keep a ppc in tune all day. Tuners help this a lot, regardless of caliber.
My advice would be to go with a 6br or 30br and a tuner. In the 6br, start with H322 and/or n135 for light bullets and rock on. For the 30br, the satndard is h4198, but there are others that have proven to shoot well, too.
Then comes the PPC. While there are other choices seen on occasion, N133 is by far the most used powder with light bullets, which is pretty much all you see shot in a ppc....n133 with 60-68gr bullets in 13.5-14 twist barrels.
This combination is fantastic when in tune. It's been my experience that when it goes out of tune, it can often do so in a hurry..hero to zero...and not the good kind of zero. There are people that are very good at keeping one shooting all day, but there are also people that have been shooting them for many years and still struggle with tune issues. In fact, it's been said by some well respected shooters in the game,that there is likely a pretty small percentage of them that are truly tuned well at most any match.
I got away from the ppc for this reasxon. This was before widespread tuner usage, so I may migrate back toward them in time. But, while most of my shooting over the last several years has been with some variation of a 30, I have had good luck with a 6br, and a 220 Beggs, aw well. I have never seen them as being difficult to tune and maintain reasonably well, that tune, throughout the course of a match. Nothing is impervious to tune changes as conditions change, but the 6br IME does seem much easier, particularly if you plan to go pre-loaded. Either way, weight limits are generous in UBR and I'd seriously consider using tuner on whatever you shoot. In fact, i'll likely never shoot competitively without one, again.--Mike Ezell

 

[Eric Leonard]

Mike Ezell,,did you shoot at Gallatin Saturday,,it was my first time shooting UBR and shot a 6BR with 104 BIBs and H4895 which is my 600 yard load,,I have a 6PPC bbl on its way for next month ,,I hope I can get it tuned and shooting 11s by then,,
I was they guy on the end that probably looked like a fugitive from justice..LOL

 

[Greyfox]

6ppc with 68 class bullets or 6br with 105 class. For a new shooter starting in UBR benchrest score matches which would be the most forgiving while trying to learn at 100/200 yards? Not wanting to debate caliber vs caliber , just wondering if one would be better to start with to get form and start this thing called wind reading. Thanks for any replies

My first answer would be shoot what you already have. If that's a BR fine, if it's a PPC that's fine as well. If you are going to get something, I'd say a 6PPC. The thing is, in going on six years of UBR competition 6 BRs have won very few matches in head to head competition with 6PPCs. Factory class has had it's wins with 6BRs, but that's partly because the only Factory 6PPCs are no longer in production and the Sako was probably the only one that was seriously competitive. If you are going to compete, you should be planning, sometime down the road, to win. You will not consistently win with a BR over a PPC.

The tune thing always comes up with the PPC, but a tuner is an easy add on in all but Factory class. That should take care of the tuning issue. For the most part, with a tuner and LT 32 I haven't had that much of a problem staying in tune. You could consider some type of .30 cal (30 BR or 30 Major). Tune doesn't seem to be as much of a problem with the 30s. The cost of components is higher, but the barrel life is longer. Everything is a trade off.

Rick

 

[jobhopper66]

As always, Mr. Ezell's advice is well thought out and based on real world experience. I myself always look forward to his comments and try hard to use it to better my own shooting.
Ray

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Mike Ezell,,did you shoot at Gallatin Saturday,,it was my first time shooting UBR and shot a 6BR with 104 BIBs and H4895 which is my 600 yard load,,I have a 6PPC bbl on its way for next month,I hope I can get it tuned and shooting 11s by then,,
I was they guy on the end that probably looked like a fugitive from justice..LOL

Yeah, if if want to call it shooting. Lol! I meant to come over and talk with you. Seemed like I was always busy either shooting or meeting with others. I certainly didn't mean to be non-sociable. You must be Eric. I look forward to shooting with you again and getting to know you. I make it a point to enjoy these shoots, regardless of how my day is going.

The way the wind was blowing and switching all day, I'm not sure the 104's didn't have an advantage. Lol! It was a tough day. I'm way rusty and have got to start working hard on my shooting. I took on a new full time career in real estate and still making shooting products at the same time. On top of that, the last couple of years have seen some members of my family have some health issues that have also cut into my play time. There hasn't been a lot of free time to focus on shooting of late, and it shows.

There's a tough crowd of good folks at Gallatin, and day in and day out..it's the toughest range I've ever shot. They're all tough at times, but this one can be brutal, and is pretty nasty all the time. A few years back, a well known shooter that was chasing points for the IBS championship came down to shoot with us. He asked me if "Gallatin was always this bad"..That day was one of the best I had ever seen there and I told him so. I think he wound up 2nd in the points that year. It's a place that forces you to get better.

Anyway, I thought you did fine. Come on back and shoot with us next month. I look forward to meeting with you.--Mike Ezell

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

As always, Mr. Ezell's advice is well thought out and based on real world experience. I myself always look forward to his comments and try hard to use it to better my own shooting.
Ray

Ray, that's kind of you to say and mostly undeserved, on my part....but thanks anyway!--Mike

 

[JamesnTN]

Mike Ezell,,did you shoot at Gallatin Saturday,,it was my first time shooting UBR and shot a 6BR with 104 BIBs and H4895 which is my 600 yard load,,I have a 6PPC bbl on its way for next month ,,I hope I can get it tuned and shooting 11s by then,,
I was they guy on the end that probably looked like a fugitive from justice..LOL

Well how did ya do?

 

[Eric Leonard]

Well how did ya do?

I shot some 9`s and 11`s wound up at 478 so I liked 2 points averaging 10`s,,I was completely lost,,I had never even seen a UBR target and didnt have a clue how much to hold for how much wind there was and had to quit shooting sighters on the last couple targets to have enough ammo to finish,,

I learned a lot and had a good time and can see myself melting a couple barrels trying to at least break 500,,I like a challenge and that target is a real challenge,,

 

[Jr Rigsby]

I shot some 9`s and 11`s wound up at 478 so I liked 2 points averaging 10`s,,I was completely lost,,I had never even seen a UBR target and didnt have a clue how much to hold for how much wind there was and had to quit shooting sighters on the last couple targets to have enough ammo to finish,,

I learned a lot and had a good time and can see myself melting a couple barrels trying to at least break 500,,I like a challenge and that target is a real challenge,,

 

[Jr Rigsby]

Eric-- Mr Ezell & Mr Fox's advice are to be taken as the golden rule. I might add that if you are going to shoot 68grs, you may consider getting a 13.5 or 14 tw barrel, also good glass is a must. Look forward to seeing you back at Gallatin. I'm the guy with the propane heater, a real friend maker on a cold day.
JR

 

[Eric Leonard]

thanx for the heat JR,,my 6BR bbl is 8 twist and I had never tried to tune a light bullet load for it and Rick said to just bring what I had and thats what I had,,if everything goes as planned I will have a 6PPC bbl on the same rifle next month and I hope to be better prepared mentaly,,

my scope is a 35X Leupold Comp with 1/8th clix and a super fine crosshair that is raised pretty high so you can see lots in front of your target,,thats about as good of glass I can afford for a while,,heck it is as clear as a bell and tracks true,,

I really appreciate all the help,,there was some dang good shooters there Saturday,hopefully I can get in that category ,,

 

[ttfreestyle]

I also took the advice of Greyfox and took my only 6br I had last Saturday. It was a 8 twist shooting 105 hybrids, no wind flags and not sure I can read them Yet anyways. Did the heavy bullets save me points, I have wondered that very thing. I learned that my loading is not up to par, I can't read wind, and that I had a blast! Met very nice and helpful folks and got to see some nice equipment. So now the quest to improve begins and I can't wait. O this trip cost me a new fleece jacket, that heater is tough on fleece lol. And she wants a new gun also, you told me to run Rick, I'm just not smart enough to listen! Can't wait til next month. Thanks to all at Gallatin for welcoming us and making us feel comfortable.

 

[BobB]

My first answer would be shoot what you already have. If that's a BR fine, if it's a PPC that's fine as well. If you are going to get something, I'd say a 6PPC. The thing is, in going on six years of UBR competition 6 BRs have won very few matches in head to head competition with 6PPCs. Factory class has had it's wins with 6BRs, but that's partly because the only Factory 6PPCs are no longer in production and the Sako was probably the only one that was seriously competitive. If you are going to compete, you should be planning, sometime down the road, to win. You will not consistently win with a BR over a PPC.

The tune thing always comes up with the PPC, but a tuner is an easy add on in all but Factory class. That should take care of the tuning issue. For the most part, with a tuner and LT 32 I haven't had that much of a problem staying in tune. You could consider some type of .30 cal (30 BR or 30 Major). Tune doesn't seem to be as much of a problem with the 30s. The cost of components is higher, but the barrel life is longer. Everything is a trade off.

Rick

I also shoot a PPC and preload for each match. Shooting LT32 I rarely feel that my loads are out of tune. I try to develop a load with a wide tune window from the get go. I shot on bench 12 at Gallatin on Saturday, it was a tough day for everyone. I have tried shooting my unlimited gun with an 8 twist BR with 108 Bergers and while its accurate at longer distances, I do not think it is able to hang with a PPC at 100-200 yds. When I put a big PPC barrel on the same gun it shines.
Bob B