New Rule Requires Firearms Dealers to Disclose Buyer Information to Government

[Bill K]

I often wonder where some people live. The firearm dealers (FFL) have always had to give the government a buyers information. Where to you think a copy of the DROS paper work went ?
For those that don't seem to know, it was/is sent to the ATF, which is a government agency and keeps records on gun sales, always has.

Like Mikie said, if you don't want the government to know, then don't buy a gun or find a source, as criminals to on the black market.
Or maybe you could still contact Holder or Obama and get into their "Fast and Furious" program, like the cartels did.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I often wonder where some people live. The firearm dealers (FFL) have always had to give the government a buyers information. Where to you think a copy of the DROS paper work went ?
For those that don't seem to know, it was/is sent to the ATF, which is a government agency and keeps records on gun sales, always has.

Like Mikie said, if you don't want the government to know, then don't buy a gun or find a source, as criminals to on the black market.
Or maybe you could still contact Holder or Obama and get into their "Fast and Furious" program, like the cartels did.

FFL holders do not send their paperwork in unless requested, usually due to a transfer or license cancellation. The papers can sit in files in the dark, dank back room for many many years. The only time they see them is when a gun is used in a crime and is traced down to that ffl getting it transferred in or the rogue aft agent swinging by taking pictures- thats why we made such a big deal about that on the other thread. There is NO gun registration database. It is not legal for the aft to keep a registration database.

Edit: i see youre in california so the actual laws on the books do not apply there.

 

[urbanrifleman]

FFL holders do not send their paperwork in unless requested, usually due to a transfer or license cancellation. The papers can sit in files in the dark, dank back room for many many years. The only time they see them is when a gun is used in a crime and is traced down to that ffl getting it transferred in or the rogue aft agent swinging by taking pictures- thats why we made such a big deal about that on the other thread. There is NO gun registration database. It is not legal for the aft to keep a registration database.

Edit: i see youre in california so the actual laws on the books do not apply there.

So I want to ask you an honest question because I really want to know and I don't know the answer. So I sold a carbine rifle in Ohio at a gun show. Apparently after nearly a decade it was used in some kind of crime and was confiscated. And the police sent me a letter as the original owner asking me if I wanted it back.

Now I ask you, how did they know I was the original owner?

 

[NorCalMikie]

Now I ask you, how did they know I was the original owner?

BINGO!! But the Feds DON'T keep records.

 

[Bill K]

Regardless of what some think and have or are saying. The ATF/FBI Have the knowledge of what you put on the DROS paperwork when you buy a firearm.
It is recorded and on their files, so when they want to check out a gun and it's serial number, they can find who it was sold too.
If along the way, it is sold and proper papers work is not done, then they will find out who owned it or had is registered last too. Like in your case, you. Not difficult to figure out.

 

[Ernest T]

The administration can't pass laws, only congress can do so. What the administration can do is make rules, which implement laws passed by congress. The article is a little confusing as it seems to conflagrate the two. If the a government agency creates a rule that violates the constitution, the courts will stop them from enforcing the rule. That's the way our system of checks and balances works.

I'm a little cynical in that I believe the government, at least some part of it, already knows who owns, or at least bought a fire arm with a background check.

 

[Bill K]

Also remember from the DROS, you information is given to the ATF/FBI/NCIC when the dealer runs the background check, prior to the sale and buyer taking possession of said firearm. So there is another way that they have your information, ID, address, etc. etc.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Also remember from the DROS, you information is given to the ATF/FBI/NCIC when the dealer runs the background check, prior to the sale and buyer taking possession of said firearm. So there is another way that they have your information, ID, address, etc. etc.

Theres no gun ID when they call in the nics check just says if you can have A gun or not

 

[Dusty Stevens]

So I want to ask you an honest question because I really want to know and I don't know the answer. So I sold a carbine rifle in Ohio at a gun show. Apparently after nearly a decade it was used in some kind of crime and was confiscated. And the police sent me a letter as the original owner asking me if I wanted it back.

Now I ask you, how did they know I was the original owner?

They contacted the mfr and said where did this gun go. They opened the file and told them which distributor. Then they called them and said where did you send this gun? Then they contacted the dealer you got it from new and said where did this gun go? Then they call you and say hey where is this gun? You say you sold it to a guy in the walmart parking lot off of marketplace then they say damn, dead end and then move on in their investigation. I have been on the end of digging out paperwork as most dealers have if they deal in typical crime guns. There is no gun database in the free 49 states i promise

 

[DirtySteve]

They contacted the mfr and said where did this gun go. They opened the file and told them which distributor. Then they called them and said where did you send this gun? Then they contacted the dealer you got it from new and said where did this gun go? Then they call you and say hey where is this gun? You say you sold it to a guy in the walmart parking lot off of marketplace then they say damn, dead end and then move on in their investigation. I have been on the end of digging out paperwork as most dealers have if they deal in typical crime guns. There is no gun database in the free 49 states i promise

You left out Hawaii. 48 States. No data base as far as who bought what but of who has bought them, quite possibly..... I have first hand knowledge of how our government does what ever they want to behind closed doors..

 

[Dusty Stevens]

You left out Hawaii. 48 States. No data base as far as who bought what but of who has bought them, quite possibly..... I have first hand knowledge of how our government does what ever they want to behind closed doors..

Yep you could have bought a 10/22 or a twice barrel shotgun like uncle joe suggested and they are none the wiser- all they know is you had to have a nics check because your ccw permit was expired

 

[JLT]

The 4473 xml data string has always included buyer identification information. Importantly, there is nothing in the electronic transaction record that associates a person (name, address, dob, DL number, SSN, height, weight, etc.) with a firearm serial number except for the hardcopy 4473. The firearm-specific information is collected after a 'Proceed' is returned and it does not (and never has) go into the electronic transmission. It is also never requested in phone transactions. Anything requiring the reporting of denials or delays does not require the collection of additional information and it appears to be nothing more than a formalized data-sharing agreement among a variety of different agencies.

 

[Toddmack]

Yep you could have bought a 10/22 or a twice barrel shotgun like uncle joe suggested and they are none the wiser- all they know is you had to have a nics check because your ccw permit was expired

What does a NICS check have to do with my non-existent CCW permit? I live in a free state.

The entire thing is dirty and will only get worse.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

What does a NICS check have to do with my non-existent CCW permit? I live in a free state.

The entire thing is dirty and will only get worse.

With a ccw permit in most states you do not have to have a nics check, so they have no idea you even attempted to buy a gun or actually bought 150

 

[NorCalMikie]

With a ccw permit in "MOST STATES" you do not have to have a nics check,

BUT, if you live in California, where Women are Women and so are some of the Men and you deal with some liberal POS FFL dealers, you WILL have to do the "check" thing just because.
Black Powder muzzle loaders ARE NOT classed as firearms in California BUT, in some liberal SF Bay area cities, they have to go thru an FFL to buy one.
And if I remember correctly from back when I had my FFL, paper work had to go to the local Law agency (Sheriff Dept) for approval and if you didn't hear back, the sale/transfer was good to go.

 

[joshb]

With a ccw permit in most states you do not have to have a nics check, so they have no idea you even attempted to buy a gun or actually bought 150

My local guy in Texas keeps telling me that I should get a CCW so I won’t have to go through the paperwork. To get a CCW, I read I have to get fingerprinted, photo, etc. This gives me pause. Who gets those records? It seems more intrusive than filling out the 4473. We have Constitutional Carry in Texas, so.......

 

[dellet]

My local guy in Texas keeps telling me that I should get a CCW so I won’t have to go through the paperwork. To get a CCW, I read I have to get fingerprinted, photo, etc. This gives me pause. Who gets those records? It seems more intrusive than filling out the 4473. We have Constitutional Carry in Texas, so.......

So basically a carry permit in Texas, is less intrusive, requires less information, and easier to obtain than a drivers license.

 

[Dgd6mm]

If you've worked at or in some of the places that demand an extensive intrusive background check, you are then on record and you'll never change that. So they already have you. If your a registered whatever, they already have you. We're screwed, these agencies aren't on our side.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

My local guy in Texas keeps telling me that I should get a CCW so I won’t have to go through the paperwork. To get a CCW, I read I have to get fingerprinted, photo, etc. This gives me pause. Who gets those records? It seems more intrusive than filling out the 4473. We have Constitutional Carry in Texas, so.......

Josh it will probably be easier to go ahead and get the ccw than to go through the hassle of getting delayed or denied down the road sometime.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

My local guy in Texas keeps telling me that I should get a CCW so I won’t have to go through the paperwork. To get a CCW, I read I have to get fingerprinted, photo, etc. This gives me pause. Who gets those records? It seems more intrusive than filling out the 4473. We have Constitutional Carry in Texas, so.......

They are duplicate records and all it shows is that you can carry a concealed firearm, not how many you buy or how often. If you get a nics check 5-6 times a week they may suspect you are buying guns, they just dont know what