New Rifle, Building a load of Recommended Powder. How About You?

[Colt Kodiak]

I recognize you guys will all say that I've not had your experience and I know that... This is probably my 20th rifle I've gotten from my gunsmith over the 35 years I've known him. On all of these, we've used Remington 700 actions and all of his good stuff with Hart barrels, Jewell triggers, trued actions, single shot blocks, etc.. On all 20 rifles, I've never had any experience with the lighter loads to "start" with, except to go on up. Every time, I've had to go to the maximum and a little more to find the accurate loads. Now I'm working on a .204 Ruger and now trying Benchrest powder and a 35 grain Burger Varmint HP. The maximum load (in the books) was 26.6 grains producing about the mid 3850 range. I'm up to 27.3 and in the 3850 range and the bolt is easy to open, the primer is not cratered, etc. But I started at the 24 grain "minimum load (as always)" I must say; I've never had a rifle do anything but except the maximum load and more besides. What are we worried about here starting with the minimum load? A change in the powder I've purchased? Can you guys tell why we must start with the minimum loads?

 

[Homerange]

In a word....safety ! Publish something that's not and risk litigation, pure and simple.

We have no idea or for that matter neither do the loading book authors of the experience of a handloader and therefore they publish starting loads that no one other than the village idiot can get into trouble with.

Personally I start with a new caliber with a good bit of reading from more than just one loading book.
Once satisfied that I'm offered consistent advice I'll pick a load ~80% full power and progress from there. Between 5 & 10% under max charge and if it crony's a velocity close to what's published or predicted I'll stoke near to max and start zeroing in on what a good load might be.

 

[Colt Kodiak]

In a word....safety ! Publish something that's not and risk litigation, pure and simple.

We have no idea or for that matter neither do the loading book authors of the experience of a handloader and therefore they publish starting loads that no one other than the village idiot can get into trouble with.

Personally I start with a new caliber with a good bit of reading from more than just one loading book.
Once satisfied that I'm offered consistent advice I'll pick a load ~80% full power and progress from there. Between 5 & 10% under max charge and if it crony's a velocity close to what's published or predicted I'll stoke near to max and start zeroing in on what a good load might be.

Safety is right on with the manuals. Now, I load 5 rounds at the minimum and go on up at .5 grains and load 5 shots at each of those until the maximum load I've read about. But, I only fire one shell at these minimum strains and see if everything is okay, see the lower reading on the chrony, etc. and then move to the next one higher up, shooting one shell at a time. Then I unload the other four on these unused strings all the way to maximum loads that might work out when I get home. That seems to work and saves powder. Does anyone else do this?

 

[BoydAllen]

The increase cause by loading touching or into the lands instead of having the bullet jump to the lands has bee cited as about 5-6000 CUP. Dropping a load to the middle of the range of loads listed in manuals for a particular bullet and powder combination usually more than takes care of this factor. The first thing that I do is to run a pressure series with the bullet seated into the rifling just enough to barely mark the bullet with a mid book load from which I stair step up by an increment suitable to the case's capacity. For a PPC it is .3 gr. for a case in the magnum range it is usually .5 grain. I shoot one shot per load and stop when I see pressure signs indicating pressure that I would not want to load to on a routine basis. There are other aspects to this test that relate to accuracy, but this is my method for finding my upper limit of charge weight. When I get to those signs I stop and if there are heavier charges that have not been shot, I disassemble those rounds. This is just my procedure, I am not recommending it or warranting its safety or suitability for any other shooter.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I agree with Boyd. The first thing I do is run a pressure test. One shot each .3-.5 grains apart until I hit pressure. I usually shoot either a ladder or sine wave target with them just for a little early data. Once you hit pressure you know you safe max with those components. Usually about 12-15 shots and I have a good idea of where to start for serious load work.

 

[dcali]

I've never had a light load work either. (I've been reading up on internal ballistics lately, and it seems there is a reason for this could be that load density plays a bigger role than I had previously thought. Jury's still out on exactly why - at least for me).

That said, it only takes a few rounds to do a pressure test (one per charge weight) to find out where max really is. QuickLOAD is very helpful too in my experience. Starting at 10% down like the reloading manuals suggest is pretty conservative but not a terrible idea. I stop at the lower of QuickLOAD or pressure signs. Usually the best load is somewhere around there.

You will ruin your brass with a quickness if you push pressure too far. I learned the hard way once with a box of new Lapua brass that lasted one firing. No pressure signs, just dead brass. Turns out that QuickLOAD put the pressure in the mid-60,000s if I recall, which was more than any book would allow. (This was not a load that you could find in a book, but the load I used seemed reasonable given other data). Ever since then, I've been more cautious (this incident is what made be buy QuickLOAD).

Bolt guns are generally very safe, and it's pretty hard to blow one up using a sane powder. But even so, brass is relatively weak and you don't want case failures. Safety is a real concern - it's easy to forget how big 50,000 psi is.

 

[Link]

I have read / test OAL to get the most accurate, then shoot a ladder to see where your nodes are. Pick a node [usually the top one] Then tune. How many of you shoot a ladder and chart it? Don

 

[Colt Kodiak]

The increase cause by loading touching or into the lands instead of having the bullet jump to the lands has bee cited as about 5-6000 CUP. Dropping a load to the middle of the range of loads listed in manuals for a particular bullet and powder combination usually more than takes care of this factor. The first thing that I do is to run a pressure series with the bullet seated into the rifling just enough to barely mark the bullet with a mid book load from which I stair step up by an increment suitable to the case's capacity. For a PPC it is .3 gr. for a case in the magnum range it is usually .5 grain. I shoot one shot per load and stop when I see pressure signs indicating pressure that I would not want to load to on a routine basis. There are other aspects to this test that relate to accuracy, but this is my method for finding my upper limit of charge weight. When I get to those signs I stop and if there are heavier charges that have not been shot, I disassemble those rounds. This is just my procedure, I am not recommending it or warranting its safety or suitability for any other shooter.

I see others have talked about "pressure signs", and I'm wondering what those are? I know if the bolt is hard to open, or if the primer is cratered out, but do you have an instrument to monitor pressure?

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

If you have ever owned a rifle that had a true SAAMI minimum chamber you'll understand. - I had a 244 Remington that had just that and back at that time the minimum loads listed in the various manuals were a good starting place. - The rifle had a short throat and a 1-12 twist barrel & shot lighter (70 & 75 gr) bullets pretty well, but it was max'd out before hitting a middle charge weight using IMR-4320 & powders in that burning rate.

 

[Colt Kodiak]

I still don't understand how to "monitor pressure" in a rifle?

 

[Homerange]

I still don't understand how to "monitor pressure" in a rifle?

Every rifle is a little different particularly WRT primer cratering. Depends on the firing pin fit to hole and the pin extrusion.
Simply, its primer flattening and/or cratering, bolt lift and measurements.
Stoke your loads too hard and brass life will suffer. (loose primers)

But until you've gained some experience know what to look for bolt lift is a big red flag and excessive primer flattening or excessive cratering are the others. Some confidence can be built with a crony and adherence to published loads.....but on the safer side.

 

[K22]

In my experience Benchmark, while an excellent powder, hit high pressure signs well before the max. loads published in various manuals. My experience with this powder was with the 223 Rem cartridge in several bolt rifles. I wouldn't push it with this powder.

Given the caliber you mentioned, i.e. 204 Ruger, I assumed it's hunting rifle. I've rarely found "maximum" loads the most accurate or is it necessary to have a "tack driver" at high pressure for an effective hunting load, even for precise varmint hunting. If you're hitting 1/2 moa or there about you're good to go for varmint hunting. Spend your time and money learning how to shoot in the field.

My first step with a new rifle, after cleaning it, is to measure the maximum COL for the bullet I'll be using. I normally start at 0.020" off the lands and never go closer than 0.010" to avoid creating a high pressure condition or having a bullet stick in the land when I eject an unfired cartridge, a real mess for a hunter. Magazine length and adequate bullet tension are also factors I consider when selecting a seating depth.

I'm so familiar with the cartridges that I shoot now that there isn't much guess work selecting a powder / load combo that will work well with a new rifle in these calibers. Of course there is always exceptions.

The Lyman, Nosler and Sierra loading manuals "most accurate" data are a good place to start in selecting a powder / bullet combo. I start in the middle of the range and vary up or down by .5 grains watching closely for any excessive pressure signs.

Safety has to be your first priority. Learn how to read high pressure signs.

 

[Colt Kodiak]

In my experience Benchmark, while an excellent powder, hit high pressure signs well before the max. loads published in various manuals. My experience with this powder was with the 223 Rem cartridge in several bolt rifles. I wouldn't push it with this powder.

Given the caliber you mentioned, i.e. 204 Ruger, I assumed it's hunting rifle. I've rarely found "maximum" loads the most accurate or is it necessary to have a "tack driver" at high pressure for an effective hunting load, even for precise varmint hunting. If you're hitting 1/2 moa or there about you're good to go for varmint hunting. Spend your time and money learning how to shoot in the field.

My first step with a new rifle, after cleaning it, is to measure the maximum COL for the bullet I'll be using. I normally start at 0.020" off the lands and never go closer than 0.010" to avoid creating a high pressure condition or having a bullet stick in the land when I eject an unfired cartridge, a real mess for a hunter. Magazine length and adequate bullet tension are also factors I consider when selecting a seating depth.

I'm so familiar with the cartridges that I shoot now that there isn't much guess work selecting a powder / load combo that will work well with a new rifle in these calibers. Of course there is always exceptions.

The Lyman, Nosler and Sierra loading manuals "most accurate" data are a good place to start in selecting a powder / bullet combo. I start in the middle of the range and vary up or down by .5 grains watching closely for any excessive pressure signs.

Safety has to be your first priority. Learn how to read high pressure signs.

Thanks. I appreciate the help.

 

[dsculley]

I know that most people talk about monitoring pressure by watching for signs such as flattened or cratered primers, hard bolt lift, etc. Your best way to monitor pressure is with your chronograph, unless you have a strain gauge. Speed = pressure. When you reach max muzzle velocity per the reloading manuals then you have also reached max pressure. Yes, i know some post that their loads are exceeding published MV, but if they are then they are also exceeding the pressures listed in the published data. Modern rifles can usually take the pressure increase, they are proof tested well above the published max. If you shoot alone and want to exceed published max, then your are dealing only with your safety. If you shoot with friends, family, or at public ranges then you are potentially compromising the safety of others as well.

Prudence requires that you start testing at a safe load, work up until you find a good load or until you reach max pressure. If you can't find a good load without exceeding max pressure then you need to re-evaluate your components. All the rifles I have ever tested have had multiple nodes before reaching max MV. I don't necessarily select the fastest node.

 

[Colt Kodiak]

I know that most people talk about monitoring pressure by watching for signs such as flattened or cratered primers, hard bolt lift, etc. Your best way to monitor pressure is with your chronograph, unless you have a strain gauge. Speed = pressure. When you reach max muzzle velocity per the reloading manuals then you have also reached max pressure. Yes, i know some post that their loads are exceeding published MV, but if they are then they are also exceeding the pressures listed in the published data. Modern rifles can usually take the pressure increase, they are proof tested well above the published max. If you shoot alone and want to exceed published max, then your are dealing only with your safety. If you shoot with friends, family, or at public ranges then you are potentially compromising the safety of others as well.

Prudence requires that you start testing at a safe load, work up until you find a good load or until you reach max pressure. If you can't find a good load without exceeding max pressure then you need to re-evaluate your components. All the rifles I have ever tested have had multiple nodes before reaching max MV. I don't necessarily select the fastest node.

Thanks