New Gunsmith tooling...

[Rustystud]

1. Would there be any interest in Greg Tannel style "aluminum" action truing jigs with D1-4 cam locks built in? I have a major manufacture willing to make some if there was an interest. This would mean no dialing in of the jig, just dialing in the action in the jig.

2. Would there be any interest in D1-4, 6" OD x 2" depth with 1.5" ID cat heads for barrel chambering on a D1-4 lathe? D1-5 and D1-6 catheads are available from Grizzly machine.
I asked Grizzly if they were going to make a D1-4 cathead and they said they saw no need. These allow for shorter barrels to be turned in the headstock.

I know may gunsmiths are using D1-4 lathes.

Thanks Nat Lambeth

 

[jscandale]

I know may gunsmiths are using D1-4 lathes.

Thanks Nat Lambeth

That's funny you should say Nat. I called Grizzly several months ago and asked about a spider chuck for the D1-4 and got the same answer, so I ended up making one myself.

JS

 

[X-RingCustomGunsmithing]

Whats the price for the action jig?

 

[jesker]

I don't know if you have seen any of the videos of the Viper but the tooling he made to chamber a barrel seems to take care of dialing a barrel in very well expecialy for a new guy. If someone would make one of his jigs that fit strait on a D1-4 and other camlocks that would take care of both ends of a barrel. I will try to post his Youtube video here.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErVOUVszFjY&feature=related[/youtube]

This did not seem to work so search viper chambering videos.

 

[Rustystud]

XRing:

I have no idea yet. The lugs used for D1-4 Adapters sell for $35.00 each and it would take 3.

The advantage would be no dialing in of the jig in a 4 jaw first.

I have used the Tannel type action jig to dial in barrels "Gordy style" and use a heater hose with a clamp through the headstock attached to my flush system. It worked great for short barrels in a long headstock.

Just another way to skin the ole cat.

Nat Lambeth

 

[X Ring Accuracy]

PM sent about a D1-4 spider. Like you said, ALOT of smiths have lathes with that configuration.

 

[apakesha]

The advantage would be no dialing in of the jig in a 4 jaw first.



Nat Lambeth

Why don't you just chuck it into a 3 jaw chuck? Then it would be centered.

 

[Rustystud]

I like my setups to be centered better than can be achieved with most three jaw chucks. then I dial in even finer with the jig or spider.

I would compare it to having a trued up tire on a bent rim.

The better the jig is centered the less vibration/wobble one has.

Nat Lambeth

 

[apakesha]

Yeah, but you are turning at 70 - 140 rpm when chambering or cutting threads, right? It is not like you are going to spin the jig right out of the chuck with the centrifugal force.
When I put a piece in my 3 jaw chuck or 6 jaw chuck I routinely loosen and adjust the 4 adjusting set screws on the chuck and fine tune it with my indicator. Depending on the diameter of the piece sometimes it needs adjusting and sometimes it doesn't. I can get it just as close as the 4 jaw chuck.

 

[jscandale]

apakesha,

I think you make a very good point, but do you actually have a 3 jaw that runs as true as a 4 jaw??? If so, I've never heard of one.

Thanks,
JS

 

[Robert]

Apakesha
If you center both at front with the chuck and at rear with the spider (we call it the grasshopper here LOL), you need a mean of adjusting ondependently both sides for runout .
Moreover, barrels does not often offer a perfect cylindrical (tapered instead) surface to be evenly borne by the chuck jaws. Also, in order to both ensure a better contact surface and not mark the barrel finish, it seem to me wise to place between jaws and barrel a piece of thin soft metal sheet, copper, brass or aluminium…
How, in those conditions, would you achieve a perfect concentricity without a 4 independent jaws chuck?.

Even soft jaws perfectly bored to barrel diameter and contour would not ensure that, as centering at the rear woul somewhat affect the cantievered part of the barrel out of the jaws.
R.G.C

 

[Eddie Harren]

Here we go.

 

[apakesha]

DocEd You're right... Here we go.

Robert We are talking about two different things here. Nat was talking about integrating a truing fixture (not a barrel) into a D1-4 adapter to automatically center the truing fixture every time it is mounted. I suggested that you could achieve the same by just putting the truing fixture in a 3 jaw chuck. It would be close enough, period. You are only using rpm's in the 70-140 range. The 8 adjusting bolts in the truing fixture provide enough adjustment needed to dial in your action or short barrel.
I agree with you that a 3 jawed chuck would not work using it in conjunction with the spider on the outboard side of the headstock for doing barrels.

JS Yes I have a 3 jaw chuck that can run as true as a 4 jaw chuck. Mine, as well as a lot of others has 4 adjusting screws in the chuck that allow it to be centered by loosening the 4 locking screws on the face of the chuck and then adjusting the 4 screws on the side of the chuck. These screws ride on the chuck backer plate and allow for very fine adjustment.

 

[Hal]

Nat

What a great idea. It sure would shorten the set up time.
I was just using my Gre-tan jig today and it moved in my 4Jaw, I had to recenter it.
When I'm done with this project I'll mount it to a faceplate for my D1-3 lathe.



Jester:
Viper makes a nice video, I would guess he picked up the idea from Gre-Tan.

Hal

 

[jscandale]

Apakesha does make very good sense in that mounting this tooling in a 3 jaw would suffice even if the 3 is out by as much as .020" since the the device itself has 8 (I think, although never used one) adjusting screws that act as an inboard and outboard spider all in the same fixture and spins at low RPM. Unless I missed some important info here. Again, I never used one of these, so I am just using my imagination.

Also, is there any significant advantage of using this type of fixture over a more common inboard and outboard spider setup other than the clear advantage on very short barrels, like maybe a very short rifle barrel or a pistol barrel in a lathe with a big headstock?

Thanks,
JS

 

[apakesha]

JS
The truing fixture is good for truing actions and chambering short barrels that are too short to reach the outboard spider. The 4 jaw chuck and outboard spider is excellent for chambering long barrels.

 

[jscandale]

JS
The 4 jaw chuck and outboard spider is excellent for chambering long barrels.

I've always had good results with this method.

JS

 

[shortgrass]

A real gunsmith should be able to make one of those himself!

 

[Rustystud]

Shortgrass:

I am machinist, tool maker, and gunsmith.

Many gunsmith look at their business model and figure out they make more money working on guns than making fixtures. Customers are paying them to fix their guns not make improvements to their equipment. On one off jobs machining is very expensive, most good gunsmith have a safe full of work to get done. A machinist is set up to make fixtures and has the tooling needed. Where a gunsmith may not have the right fixtures or time to spend making tooling that cost $200.00 or less.
Nat Lambeth

 

[shortgrass]

Well Nat, I am a job shop machinist by trade. I already own all those attachments , like a rotory tables and a good universal dividing head, to go with my mill. I got tired of dealing with the whinners and those that think they need a "deal" and now only do any gunsmithing work for those who appreciate it. Repairing guns is a 'no money makin' task when you deal with the whinners. Doin' custom barrel and stock work for those that want that "deal" ain't worth the trouble! They never understand the time it can take. By limiting my clientele I have the time to do quality work (and get paid for it!) and still make a a jig, fixture, or special wrench if I need to. Making that jig is a straight forward machining task, just like custom threading, chambering and crowning is. (I ran a full time shop for quit a few years, just got tired of dealing with those that havn't a clue!) In any business, if you don't take time to maintain and up-grade you will, at some point, get left behind. That last statement applies to ones skills, also.