New Brass prep service offering.

[Carden260]

Ok, so I have read many opinions on the IDOD, so I thought I would throw mine into the mix. For reference I have been a serious F Class shooter for 12 years and if you don't know me, ask around about my credentials.

First off some one mentioned "as a machinist we blah blah" well the guy that makes these is a 3rd generation machinist and runs the family business down here in Phoenix. He's qualified.

I have used the IDOD and own serial number 2. It is not a toy and does require some mechanical skill to set up and use.

For those "serious" competitors, as in regular top ten etc, we would shoot brass through a no turn neck fire forming barrel first to "move" the brass where it needs to go, and straighten them out, then run them through the IDOD. Price we pay for our level of consistency. If you are going to neck up brass from say 6.5 to 7mm this will make the necks that much thinner to start with, so you only end up taking few thou off inside and outside. Yes, they need to be straight.

I you are turning brass without necking up there is plenty of wall thickness there to be "sloppy" with your setup and still fully clean up the neck. But if I was going to do this I would still run them through non bushing sizing die then expander to straighten them and get consistent size.

I would venture to guess that most of those "top competitors" that I am leading to South Africa next week use the IDOD.

It is a great produce made by a great guy. Is it for everyone, no. Will everyone be able to make it work up to its full potential, no. But if set up and used correctly, it is a fantastic machine which turns beautiful and very consistent brass.


Just my opinion, take if for what it is worth

Dan Bramley

Who are you?

 

[dbramley]

when you are saying you would shoot the brass through a no turn neck to straighten them out and move the brass where it needs to go,

are you referring to situation where the neck becomes crooked from - a neck up/down operation?

because all of my higher end adg, peterson, lapua has very good concentricity (sub 1 thou) out of the box, so i dont see why you wouldn’t just turn that is it is.

you can, just requires more exact setup if you are necking up from smaller caliber. Just not much brass to remove. We almost exclusively shoot Lapua brass, which is pretty straight out of the box.

 

[dbramley]

Who are you?

The guy who fetches racing fuel

 

[Carden260]

The guy who fetches racing fuel

I like that guy!!!!

 

[jvw2008]

If you are using a tight neck chamber and can not fireform your virgin brass, you have two choices. Turn the necks on the virgin brass or use a no turn chambered barrel for the initial firing prior to turning.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

I believe what you are missing is the "concentricity " from the "neck to the body" needs to be dead on for this machine to work for you.
Paul

i was referring to “neck to body” concentricity. All or those brands on my accuracy one gauge all produce sub 1 thou in factory state. so i dont quite understand how firing them in the chamber would make them even straighter.

 

[dcali]

As someone who has suffered through running small businesses more than once in my life, I wanted to add a bit of advice for the OP because it's hard and expensive to take that jump even as a side business. It involves a lot of failure and requires thick skin along with an irrational balance of ego and humility. Even trying is commendable. Take this for what it's worth - which is what you've paid for it.

As a technical matter, I can't say I have a dog in this fight. I've never used an Idod, and don't really see why I would want to. I've turned plenty of cases the normal way and it's always worked out fine. Personally I think what Jackie says makes a lot of sense and it matches my experience, but again, I've not used an Idod to compare it to. For F Class, I don't even bother turning brass anymore because I haven't found it makes enough of a difference to matter to me - my rifle shoots extremely well with unturned brass and I'm not losing any points because my brass isn't turned. I tend to shy away from expensive gear unless there is a quantifiable reason to spend the money. I use a partner press, mostly factory dies, and make bullets with a Lee press (really underrated presses, by the way). I don't anneal - not because it doesn't do anything, but because I have found it's not worth my time for my shooting. This is just how I am. Sometimes simple cheap stuff is better than complicated or expensive stuff.

But none of that matters, because I'm not your customer and I was never going to be. There are plenty of people who love idods, but don't own one, and want their brass turned on one. Are they right? I don't know. Ask them. Anecdotally, I would say most of these people shoot F Class, not benchrest.

There is no substitute for just jumping in and doing it. If people want idod turned brass, they will call you. If not, you need to turn it a different way or find different people. Don't get discouraged because some people don't like what you're doing or the way you're doing it. That's not a way to start a successful business. If people discover that turning the inside of the neck isn't what's best, they'll tell you, and the demand for idod turned brass will evaporate. You have to think of the service not as "idod turned brass" but "turning brass how your customers want it to be turned". You may even find it's not turning brass at all, but something else. You'll only find out if that works by jumping in with both feet and seeing what people want.

 

[dbramley]

As someone who has suffered through running small businesses more than once in my life, I wanted to add a bit of advice for the OP because it's hard and expensive to take that jump even as a side business. It involves a lot of failure and requires thick skin along with an irrational balance of ego and humility. Even trying is commendable. Take this for what it's worth - which is what you've paid for it.

As a technical matter, I can't say I have a dog in this fight. I've never used an Idod, and don't really see why I would want to. I've turned plenty of cases the normal way and it's always worked out fine. Personally I think what Jackie says makes a lot of sense and it matches my experience, but again, I've not used an Idod to compare it to. For F Class, I don't even bother turning brass anymore because I haven't found it makes enough of a difference to matter to me - my rifle shoots extremely well with unturned brass and I'm not losing any points because my brass isn't turned. I tend to shy away from expensive gear unless there is a quantifiable reason to spend the money. I use a partner press, mostly factory dies, and make bullets with a Lee press (really underrated presses, by the way). I don't anneal - not because it doesn't do anything, but because I have found it's not worth my time for my shooting. This is just how I am. Sometimes simple cheap stuff is better than complicated or expensive stuff.

But none of that matters, because I'm not your customer and I was never going to be. There are plenty of people who love idods, but don't own one, and want their brass turned on one. Are they right? I don't know. Ask them. Anecdotally, I would say most of these people shoot F Class, not benchrest.

There is no substitute for just jumping in and doing it. If people want idod turned brass, they will call you. If not, you need to turn it a different way or find different people. Don't get discouraged because some people don't like what you're doing or the way you're doing it. That's not a way to start a successful business. If people discover that turning the inside of the neck isn't what's best, they'll tell you, and the demand for idod turned brass will evaporate. You have to think of the service not as "idod turned brass" but "turning brass how your customers want it to be turned". You may even find it's not turning brass at all, but something else. You'll only find out if that works by jumping in with both feet and seeing what people want.

Well said. We all wish the OP the best in his venture. I used a Pumpkin for many years and it worked great. And I am sure most of us may not be able to shoot the difference in one way of turning necks or the other. For me personally, being a father of daughters (one of whom used to shoot thousands of rounds a year along side me) and running a very busy business, one of the main advantages of the IDOD was time. It used to take me weeks to get through 1000 pieces of brass and it always made my fingers sore etc. Plus I put that many more hours on the old lathe. With the IDOD I could get through the same thousand in one day. As far as doing this for a business, the IDOD makes perfect sense. Excellent brass faster!!!

 

[Erik Cortina]

Wow, I’m amazed at how many people are discouraging an enthusiastic new business owner. I wonder how many of the those saying the IDOD doesn’t work have actually used one?

I use the Auto IDOD and I find it as easy as it can be to turn brass. I have manual neck turners, manual lathes, and even CNC turning centers. If I thought I could get better results with any other method, I would use that. The IDOD is the only thing I use now to turn brass now days.

OP, don’t worry about the nay-sayers, do your thing and don’t look back.

 

[jimmymac]

I read this thread and didn't come to the conclusion that people were discouraging the OP. There may have been a turd or two in the punch bowl, but what I mostly took away from it is well informed knowledge and experience getting batted around to help the guy not get jammed up. Constructive criticism is a good thing if the guy on the receiving end is receptive. I hope it goes well for the OP.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

I read this thread and didn't come to the conclusion that people were discouraging the OP. There may have been a turd or two in the punch bowl, but what I mostly took away from it is well informed knowledge and experience getting batted around to help the guy not get jammed up. Constructive criticism is a good thing if the guy on the receiving end is receptive. I hope it goes well for the OP.

I believe there is a big market for autodod turned brass.

I am personally in the camp of “why would you uniform the outside of the brass but not the inside where the bullet actually touches and gets released from?”

if you could have the outside AND inside perfectly uniform, how could it get any better??

 

[jimmymac]

I believe there is a big market for autodod turned brass.

I am personally in the camp of “why would you uniform the outside of the brass but not the inside where the bullet actually touches and gets released from?”

if you could have the outside AND inside perfectly uniform, how could it get any better??

My post wasn't negative. Hope you didn't read it that way. I want the OP to do well. There will just be some uphill battles to overcome for the crooked neck crowd. Not saying it can't be done, but it is a logistical challenge for a person providing a service.

 

[Acyr]

My post wasn't negative. Hope you didn't read it that way. I want the OP to do well. There will just be some uphill battles to overcome for the crooked neck crowd. Not saying it can't be done, but it is a logistical challenge for a person providing a service.

This is exactly right. I have had guys bring me sized brass with crooked necks. They don't realize that there dies are making them crooked. Biggest reason to never turn sized brass on an Idod unless you know your dies are sizing dead straight.

 

[jimmymac]

This is exactly right. I have had guys bring me sized brass with crooked necks. They don't realize that there dies are making them crooked. Biggest reason to never turn sized brass on an Idod unless you know your dies are sizing dead straight.

All my stuff starts off crooked because I'm neck expanding to get PPC cases from 220 brass and 30BR cases from 6BR cases. I realize there are ways around this, but for my purposes I'm not going to add additional steps to make concentric cases that I provide to a neck turning service when I can handle the chore easier myself. Maybe others would be more inclined to do this for the sake of having brass turned on an Autodod.

IMO, the neck turning service would be at the mercy of his customers providing concentric cases or having a way to make them concentric himself. Short of that, the neck turning service may be wise to offer traditional neck turning as well.

Best of luck to the OP. Hope the business flourishes.

 

[Acyr]

I agree but have to say that the vast majority of our customer orders are for standard cases. I think he will have plenty of work if he sticks to those.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

I 100% agree with used brass being a potential headache for the OP.

I 100% don’t agree with the idod being inferior, as I believe its far superior AS LONG as your runout is in check.

I see a market for premade 6ppc lapua brass as well as other popular competition cartridges, 30br?

OP gets 220 russian brass, necks up to 6mm, gets a very high grade die to straighten brass back out, anneals on amp, then neck turns on autodod, the trimmed and chamfered to perfection on henderson.

Brunos was selling premade 6ppc 0.0082 wall thickness lapua brass for $3+ per case and is sold out……

 

[Black Sheep]

This is not my first business venture as there have been several over the last 30 years, some successful some not so much but I have gained experience from every one of them. I gave my 25 year old successful electronics manufacturing company to my son a little over a year ago so that I could become more focused on shooting. I started building a couple turn neck rifles (still in process) and started looking at neck turning options. I could not find a viable neck turning service or prices, DJ's was announcing his semi retirement and Zombie Killer preferred to focus on 30br and 6ppc.

Many comments have been discussing the shortcomings of the IDOD. As my original post indicated I will be using an AutoDod and as it has been pointed out several times, there is a big difference between the two as the AutoDod removes most of the human element. With the AutoDod you can use the speed control to change the smoothness of the cut. I'm sure that if I had a 10-20 thousand dollar lathe (no idea what they cost) I could develop tools of my own to generate a great turned neck. One evening (before placing the original post) I sat down and turned 300 pieces of Lapua brass and each and every one seemed to be identical. With the speed control set there was absolutely no discernable difference in any of the 300 cases. I happen to love the absolute repeatability obtainable with this machine.

My business is not going away just because some people don't like the AutoDod. I didn't start this business to get rich, or work it full time but to offer a service that I could not find. Yes, I do have a lot to learn as unlike some I don't already know everything. I believe that best knowledge is gained by doing, not by just reading someone else's opinion. I'm not saying that I can't learn from other peoples experience, I'm just saying it's not gospel for me until I've done it myself.

My business is here to stay, and I'm good with not serving everyone but I will be available to those that need it. I do really appreciate all of the people wishing me well in my new business venture.

Have a great day,
Chris

 

[Chris Edmondson]

I have an AutoDod question: What is the level of surface finish on the inside of the neck after turning? Surface roughness, Ra, is usually expressed in micro-inches or microns. The reason I ask is because I dabbled with inside turning with my lathe, I could not achieve an acceptable level of surface finish no matter what cutters, speed & feeds or lubricants I tried. While the necks were nicely concentric, the poor finish proved ruinous, accordingly, I threw in the towel on inside turning. I'll stipulate to being a lousy machinist, lol.

 

[Acyr]

I have an AutoDod question: What is the level of surface finish on the inside of the neck after turning? Surface roughness, Ra, is usually expressed in micro-inches or microns. The reason I ask is because I dabbled with inside turning with my lathe, I could not achieve an acceptable level of surface finish no matter what cutters, speed & feeds or lubricants I tried. While the necks were nicely concentric, the poor finish proved ruinous, accordingly, I threw in the towel on inside turning. I'll stipulate to being a lousy machinist, lol.

This is 308 brass I turned straight out of the box. The picture actually makes it look rough. It is almost a mirror finish. That was done on cutter speed 3 with 1 being the slowest. All 100 pieces look the same way.

 

[Carden260]

I have an AutoDod question: What is the level of surface finish on the inside of the neck after turning? Surface roughness, Ra, is usually expressed in micro-inches or microns. The reason I ask is because I dabbled with inside turning with my lathe, I could not achieve an acceptable level of surface finish no matter what cutters, speed & feeds or lubricants I tried. While the necks were nicely concentric, the poor finish proved ruinous, accordingly, I threw in the towel on inside turning. I'll stipulate to being a lousy machinist, lol.

Something to think about. The surface finish is only relevant for the first firing after turning. subsequent firings have carbon inside the neck and is smooth as a baby butt!!!