New Barrel Break-in (with Tuner) -- 6mm Dasher

[JFrank]

I haven’t had my coffee yet, re read post #43 -45, I think we’ve already had this conversation.

 

[JFrank]

Back to post #1
I think the op went through a lot of extra rounds breaking in a barrel, at some point we’d like to have those rounds added to the life of a barrel.
I started a barrel on Friday using a load from the previous barrel ( 31.0 gr at + .008 ) with two shots then scrub copper then two more shots scrubbed then two last shots cleaned again while bore scoping after each series, after de coppering I sent three rounds in a group than drove down to check the target and found only one hole at the very top of the backer, so after a scope adjustment I sent these two groups with separate lot number of Vapor trails for the heck of it. A break in total of 16 rounds..
I have to do normal load work but WTH if this is as bad as it gets I might have another great barrel.

Shot at 1000 yards under heavy mirage and brisk tail winds.

 

[mfendley]

Those are all fired at the same POA baby. I really thought you knew that and had experience in this regard. Nothing wrong with not, but trust me on this. I don't pull this stuff outta my back side. I could literally post 1000 targets, fired by different shooters from all over the country, in different disciplines, and it's there. I will say that it's harder to see at 50 yards with a rimfire but even then, it's there too. Again, maybe I'm misunderstanding but your last post seemed pretty clear, just not correct. I promise, I mean that respectfully. Others gave the test the name of a "sine test". I didn't make that up but I went with it because I thought it was pretty common knowledge by now and...it makes sense to call it that, if you will.

I agree with Mike here. Just label the x axis time and the POA remains constant, Same thing for a sine wave, it only looks like a wave if you make the x axis time - otherwise it is just a vertical line.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I agree with Mike here. Just label the x axis time and the POA remains constant, Same thing for a sine wave, it only looks like a wave if you make the x axis time - otherwise it is just a vertical line.

Yes, and actually, I see it like that... x being time, measured in frequency but in use, measured in the marks on the tuner. IOW, say it's 8 marks from anti-node to anti-node..a full single waveform. It's 8 marks between sweet spots. On the target posted, looks like his is 7 but it's very close and predictable even. The longer bbls common in long range are closer to 10 marks between sweet spots.

Short range bbls are typically about 8 marks between anti-nodes. Again, full wave form.
Half of a waveform would be say 4 marks. So, 4 marks from top of the anti-node to middle...the "scatter node" if you will.

So yes, x is time, broken into 4 or 5 marks between in tune and completely out of tune. My tuner. Other makes do vary with mark values.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

A horizontal target like what Mike posted is exactly the same thing as a ladder target. You just read them different. You see a wave in the horizontal target, you only see vertical poi change in the ladder. You look for the same thing, but read the target different. The only reason to shoot one or the other is distance. Cant shoot a ladder at short range, cant shoot a horizontal sine target at long range. They are in fact the exact same method of tuning.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

A horizontal target like what Mike posted is exactly the same thing as a ladder target. You just read them different. You see a wave in the horizontal target, you only see vertical poi change in the ladder. You look for the same thing, but read the target different. The only reason to shoot one or the other is distance. Cant shoot a ladder at short range, cant shoot a horizontal sine target at long range. They are in fact the exact same method of tuning.

Yes and no. I'm looking for more than a ladder can show me, particularly the sine pattern. No way I could make much sense of 45 holes in a single group. My sine test is 15 three shot groups with a centerfire at 100 yards. There's a reason for every single detail..to me. I get what you're saying though. Very similar in principle.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

For practical reasons you cant shoot that much at long range. Barrel heat and conditions. So you have to isolate the area you want to see and rip that 12-15 shot group ladder. Still 3 shot groups. But only 4-5 of them. Still we are looking for the exact same thing, poi. Since our windows at that range are about .1gn. there is no need to see such a wide range of powder. Luckily.

 

[JFrank]

Alex has a knack for explaining that I do not. I suspect that a long range ( 1k ) tuner test may look similar to a primer review however my question is aimed at interpreting results. Are we just looking at the smallest or a cluster ?

 

[Mikemontminy]

I know the thread got side tracked a little but appreciate all the information. I was able to get out again today with the dasher after an .22 l.r. match to check tuner settings 17-20 with 5 shot groups at 100 yards. To me tuner setting 19 produced the better 5 shot group today. It printed a bit left compared to the other groups but I’ll blame that on the wind direction. The temperature was up about 12 degrees from last session but average velocity stayed the same at 2920.

 

[JFrank]

My apologies for the detail, wasn’t intentional.
Nice work btw

 

[Mikemontminy]

My apologies for the detail, wasn’t intentional.
Nice work btw

No need to apologize. Keep the information coming. This is how we all learn.

 

[Mikemontminy]

I now have 183 rounds thru the barrel and did a 500 yard ladder test today with RE16. I finally reached the 2940 FPS velocity that I was looking for. The test was only 10 shots increasing the powder charge .1 grains between shots. The tuner was left on 19. Shots 2-6 formed a 1” group at 500. I was happy with that. I have an 80 round midrange f-class match coming up next weekend. I will probably load up 34.4 grains of RE-16 and see how that goes.

 

[JFrank]

Of the target you’ve posted, I like how #6 overlaps # 5

 

[Mikemontminy]

just an update. Settled on 34.6 grains of RE-16. Shot a half dozen different matches so far this year. Took first in all of them. Shot a personal best 500 yard 5 shot group that measured .827 this past weekend at my local club match.

 

[ISS]

Pete,

RE break in shots... When I talked with Tony Boyer at the Super Shoot he told me he would NOT EVER shoot a match with a new barrel, or even load test until it had 20 rounds break in.
I guess these days things are different, eh?

ISS

 

[ISS]

Thinking back to sitting with Tony and Ed Shilen at the Super Shoot, I remember Tony saying he brought about six barrels each for LV and HV. Some for 100yds, others for 200yds.
When I asked why, he tells me they each needed a 5-shot group to see which barrel(s) wanted to win the SS that summer.
And Skip Otto just sat there, quiet for once.

ISS

 

[JFrank]

just an update. Settled on 34.6 grains of RE-16. Shot a half dozen different matches so far this year. Took first in all of them. Shot a personal best 500 yard 5 shot group that measured .827 this past weekend at my local club match.View attachment 1582516

Nicely done’
Good things happen to good people that put in the work.