New 6br guidance

[Cory porter]

I am new into benchrest and competition shooting. I currently have a savage f class 6br and I am trying to give myself a reason to get another 6br. I will be shooting in matches for the first time this year. Hopefully 100-600 in various formats.

My question is how would you all select the specs for a second 6br. I know there is better choices for say 100yd benchrest or 600 yard f class, but I honestly just don't want to add another caliber. I'd prefer to get something nicer than a stock savage this time. Recommendation, advice and ideas would be helpful.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Short-range (100-300yd) and long-range (600-1000yd) benchrest are different games with different rules (e.g., rifle weight, stock dimensions) and different traditions (e.g., wind flag use). If you want to give yourself a chance to win, as opposed to just learning how to shoot better, you need equipment tailored to the specific game. For short-range benchrest group shooting you can get the most bang for the buck with a 10.5 pound 6PPC Sporter/Light Varmint (possibly with a weight system for shooting Heavy Varmint, but this isn't necessary). Well-built rifles are available used for less than $3000 (no scope), and often for less than $2000. You'll be shooting 62-68gr bullets, probably, with 13-14-twist barrels.

For short-range score shooting in IBS format, a 30BR is the way to go for a first-time competitor (and most others, too).

For 600-yard benchrest, an 8-twist 6BR or Dasher should be fine, but used rifles aren't as readily available as for short-range. Still, keep your eyes open.

 

[AndyTaber]

At our club the 6br is the fastest growing cartridge. I myself shoot one in 14 twist for 100 yard benchrest matches. I have resisted the notion of the 30br and its "scoring advantage" and find i am just as competetive as the thirties.
For the most part, heavy varmint (13.5 lb gun) is the most popular. There are a few ranges that offer light gun (10.5 lb) as well, but they dont always attract too many shooters to this. I do like the respite of not having to shoot every relay, just makes the match more enjoyable. But thats me. I would probably have a different perspective if i had travelled far to shoot a match.

I also have a 6br in eight twist (17 lb light gun) shooting 105's for 600 yard matches. Of my two biggest competitors, one shoots a 22br and the other a 243win. Which one of us wins is the one who has read the wind and mirrage the best that day.

As far as getting something nicer than a stock Savage, a gun built with a Bat, Kelbly or Pierce action would not disapoint.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

I have resisted the notion of the 30br and its "scoring advantage" and find i am just as competetive as the thirties.

The top score shooters have reached a different conclusion (IBS 200/300 Nationals, 2016):

 

[dkhunt14]

I am new into benchrest and competition shooting. I currently have a savage f class 6br and I am trying to give myself a reason to get another 6br. I will be shooting in matches for the first time this year. Hopefully 100-600 in various formats.

My question is how would you all select the specs for a second 6br. I know there is better choices for say 100yd benchrest or 600 yard f class, but I honestly just don't want to add another caliber. I'd prefer to get something nicer than a stock savage this time. Recommendation, advice and ideas would be helpful.

Did you mean 1000 yard bench rest or 100 yards. If I was planning on shooting 600 and 1000 yard BR or F-class, I would do a Dasher over a 6 BR. The difference at distance is great. I would contact Alex Wheeler on here and get his phone number. Talk to him and tell him what you want. Matt

 

[AndyTaber]

The top score shooters have reached a different conclusion (IBS 200/300 Nationals, 2016):

Let me see if i can explain this from my perspective. There are various levels of competition. These are absolutely the "top guns" of the game. I do not profess to compete at this level, nor do i have the desire to do so. Travelling the country in a motorhome to shoot at National events is a totally different lifestyle. I get all the shooting and "competition" i can fit in a month within a two hour drive from home.

When offering advice to newcomers I don't expect them to jump into the National Competition game. I figure if that is their desire and drive, they would probably have the answers to their questions already. Maybe a wrong assumption on my part but i see it as offering a different perspective than, "this is the only way to do it". Kind of like going down to the local half mile track and telling everyone they are wasting their time because they aren't driving a NASCAR level vehicle.

Looking at the equipment lists doesn't really tell the story of "which is more accurate" because the lists contain no other calibers. Nothing to compare it too. One of the top benchrest shooters last year started the season with a no turn 6ppc. His first initial reaction was that he could see no difference in accuracy. But, not wanting to leave anything on the table, rechambered and went back to turned necks which is what everyone else does. I would have liked to have seen the results for a year. It might have changed some ideas.

I have never seen any one ever say the 30br is more accurate than the parent 6br, it just has a scoring advantage. I would suppose that when competing at a National level this has more meaning than it does for me. I do compete with the 30br's that show up for the matches i shoot at and i have an absolute blast doing what i am doing.

 

[Gabe22BR]

I am new into benchrest and competition shooting. I currently have a savage f class 6br and I am trying to give myself a reason to get another 6br. I will be shooting in matches for the first time this year. Hopefully 100-600 in various formats.

My question is how would you all select the specs for a second 6br. I know there is better choices for say 100yd benchrest or 600 yard f class, but I honestly just don't want to add another caliber. I'd prefer to get something nicer than a stock savage this time. Recommendation, advice and ideas would be helpful.

A custom action will allow switching barrels ( without a barrel nut) and the choices are limited to boltfaces, and port size. One action- many calipers.....

 

[SteveOak]

A custom action will allow switching barrels ( without a barrel nut) and the choices are limited to boltfaces, and port size. One action- many calipers.....

I'm not sure how a custom action would facilitate switching barrels in a way that an off the shelf action would not, nor how the the selection of calibers are expanded. A custom action will be of some established length and require a bolt.

 

[Gabe22BR]

I'm not sure how a custom action would facilitate switching barrels in a way that an off the shelf action would not,action would be true, and if required, lug would be pinned nor how the the selection of calibers are expanded 6br,-284 win could be used in same action/with same bolt face. A custom action will be of some established length and require a bolt.yes most do

 

[LHSmith]

Let me see if i can explain this from my perspective. There are various levels of competition. These are absolutely the "top guns" of the game. I do not profess to compete at this level, nor do i have the desire to do so. Travelling the country in a motorhome to shoot at National events is a totally different lifestyle. I get all the shooting and "competition" i can fit in a month within a two hour drive from home.

When offering advice to newcomers I don't expect them to jump into the National Competition game. I figure if that is their desire and drive, they would probably have the answers to their questions already. Maybe a wrong assumption on my part but i see it as offering a different perspective than, "this is the only way to do it". Kind of like going down to the local half mile track and telling everyone they are wasting their time because they aren't driving a NASCAR level vehicle.

Looking at the equipment lists doesn't really tell the story of "which is more accurate" because the lists contain no other calibers. Nothing to compare it too. One of the top benchrest shooters last year started the season with a no turn 6ppc. His first initial reaction was that he could see no difference in accuracy. But, not wanting to leave anything on the table, rechambered and went back to turned necks which is what everyone else does. I would have liked to have seen the results for a year. It might have changed some ideas.

I have never seen any one ever say the 30br is more accurate than the parent 6br, it just has a scoring advantage. I would suppose that when competing at a National level this has more meaning than it does for me. I do compete with the 30br's that show up for the matches i shoot at and i have an absolute blast doing what i am doing.

I hear you. I shoot IBS Score (100-300 yds). I started with 6ppc, tried the 30BR for 3 seasons, and now use a 6 Beggs. I am in my comfort zone with the rifle (Panda), scope (Leupold LPS-the ones that are supposed to move POA) , and cartridge. The game is a definite equipment race if you expect to gain points in the Shooter Points system you can accrue annually. I don't have the funds, nor the desire to run around the east coast 30 weeks out of the year to be a top contender. For me, it is strictly for fun, and I can tell you what a rush it is when you can occasionally turn in top score at a match attended by 25 or more veteran competitors all using the higher scoring 30 BR. The IBS Score game has gotten away from the original game of Hunter Class where the intent was to allow competition using equipment that the average varmint/ deer hunter could campaign with. Then the IBS decreed custom actions could be used in Hunter which for all intents and purposes killed the class ....and as such score shooting has stagnated.
Select a rifle and cartridge that is capable of winning, learn to tune it an all conditions you expect to compete in, and practice until hold-off based on conditions becomes second nature and you'll have fun- guaranteed. If you do well. you'll have the pleasure of knowing that you did it the hard way ...and you EARNED it.

 

[JimPag]

Let me see if i can explain this from my perspective. There are various levels of competition. These are absolutely the "top guns" of the game. I do not profess to compete at this level, nor do i have the desire to do so. Travelling the country in a motorhome to shoot at National events is a totally different lifestyle. I get all the shooting and "competition" i can fit in a month within a two hour drive from home.

When offering advice to newcomers I don't expect them to jump into the National Competition game. I figure if that is their desire and drive, they would probably have the answers to their questions already. Maybe a wrong assumption on my part but i see it as offering a different perspective than, "this is the only way to do it". Kind of like going down to the local half mile track and telling everyone they are wasting their time because they aren't driving a NASCAR level vehicle.

Looking at the equipment lists doesn't really tell the story of "which is more accurate" because the lists contain no other calibers. Nothing to compare it too. One of the top benchrest shooters last year started the season with a no turn 6ppc. His first initial reaction was that he could see no difference in accuracy. But, not wanting to leave anything on the table, rechambered and went back to turned necks which is what everyone else does. I would have liked to have seen the results for a year. It might have changed some ideas.

I have never seen any one ever say the 30br is more accurate than the parent 6br, it just has a scoring advantage. I would suppose that when competing at a National level this has more meaning than it does for me. I do compete with the 30br's that show up for the matches i shoot at and i have an absolute blast doing what i am doing.

I know what your saying Andy but the truth is you can use whatever you feel comfortable with, BUT there is an advantage, make no mistake about it that a 30BR is king in score, and I'm sure you realize this. There are shooters who go to the line with 30 caliber rifles that are not in tune and there the guys who you have the most chance to beat. I have seen a few people shoot 6BR's in score, and they are really are not competitive, but IMO it's more the shooter than the caliber. This is my 5th season doing this and I decided this year I'm not going to do the traveling that I did in the past. Last year I shot down south only once. I'm sick of the driving and I can have just as much fun shooting up north here, but the only thing I'm going to miss is the good ole boys from down south. They surely are a great bunch of people, I really mean it.

 

[Cory porter]

Thanks for the advice everyone. From what I've read is it obvious there are better choices than the 6br.

But my goal is to have 2 6br's not to add another caliber. I am not confident enough with my handloading abilities yet to dive into something like a 30br/6ppc ect.

I will be shooting in local club matches and do not feel the need to go that route as of yet. My savage f class gun from my reading will be sufficient for 300/600 yard matches. That is the limit at our range.

I want something for 100/200 yard matches in 6br, with that being said is one shooting lighter bullets 68-88 better?

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

What are your club rules for 100/200 competition?

How does your F-Class 6BR shoot now? Feel free to post some targets.

 

[Greyfox]

Thanks for the advice everyone. From what I've read is it obvious there are better choices than the 6br.

But my goal is to have 2 6br's not to add another caliber. I am not confident enough with my handloading abilities yet to dive into something like a 30br/6ppc ect.

I will be shooting in local club matches and do not feel the need to go that route as of yet. My savage f class gun from my reading will be sufficient for 300/600 yard matches. That is the limit at our range.

I want something for 100/200 yard matches in 6br, with that being said is one shooting lighter bullets 68-88 better?

I suppose I can understand your reasoning not wanting to learn the ins and outs of another caliber. There is a learning curve. And as far as 300-600 yard matches a 6BR is probably your best choice. However, in SR benchrest score matches you are starting off in the 3rd place before your pull the trigger on the 1st target. For IBS targets, as has been discussed here the .308 bullet is .065" ahead on every target. That may not seem like much, but it's a rare thing to see a 6mm go to the head of the line in a score match with experienced shooters. I'll say this, you give any one of the regulars at Gallatin a .065 advantage and they will will 90% of the time, minimum. Also, in head to head competition with experience shooters the 6PPC will beat the 6BR most of the time. Is it really worth starting in 3rd place just because you need to learn a new skill? No matter what anyone say's we all compete to win. No one's goal is to finish 3rd. So, why now make a little extra effort to get what you really want. In short range it's said " you either shoot a 6PPC or get beat by one". That's not always true, but it's close enough for rock & roll. You can win with other stuff and I occasionally do, but there is a reason why the vast majority of short range benchrest shooters shoot a 6 PPC.
Rick

 

[Cory porter]

I suppose I can understand your reasoning not wanting to learn the ins and outs of another caliber. There is a learning curve. And as far as 300-600 yard matches a 6BR is probably your best choice. However, in SR benchrest score matches you are starting off in the 3rd place before your pull the trigger on the 1st target. For IBS targets, as has been discussed here the .308 bullet is .065" ahead on every target. That may not seem like much, but it's a rare thing to see a 6mm go to the head of the line in a score match with experienced shooters. I'll say this, you give any one of the regulars at Gallatin a .065 advantage and they will will 90% of the time, minimum. Also, in head to head competition with experience shooters the 6PPC will beat the 6BR most of the time. Is it really worth starting in 3rd place just because you need to learn a new skill? No matter what anyone say's we all compete to win. No one's goal is to finish 3rd. So, why now make a little extra effort to get what you really want. In short range it's said " you either shoot a 6PPC or get beat by one". That's not always true, but it's close enough for rock & roll. You can win with other stuff and I occasionally do, but there is a reason why the vast majority of short range benchrest shooters shoot a 6 PPC.
Rick

You make a very good point. I have a match in a couple weeks. I may ask what very one is shooting at the short range matches.

Also I agree, why compete if you don't plan on winning. I may just have to suck it up get a 6ppc and just learn. I'm sure in the long run ill be glad I did

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

I may ask what very one is shooting at the short range matches.

Be sure to ask those who win consistently what they are shooting. There's no need to find out what equipment those at the bottom are using.

Besides the classifieds on this site and Benchrest Central, anyone shopping for a previously owned 6PPC should browse "The List."

From the top of the heap at the 2015 Super Shoot (and the 2016 list is all 6PPC, too):

 

[Cory porter]

Be sure to ask those who win consistently what they are shooting. There's no need to find out what equipment those at the bottom are using.

Besides the classifieds on this site and Benchrest Central, anyone shopping for a previously owned 6PPC should browse "The List."

From the top of the heap at the 2015 Super Shoot (and the 2016 list is all 6PPC, too):

Not to get get to far off topic, but I just realized Norma has 6ppc brass. So with that being said it would be no more work than loading for 6br

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Not to get get to far off topic, but I just realized Norma has 6ppc brass. So with that being said it would be no more work than loading for 6br

http://www.6mmbr.com/6ppc.html

If you don't want to prep your own Lapua brass, Ron Hoehn will do it for you. You can wear out a barrel with 20-40 cases.

And watch Jack Neary's videos, starting with this one:

 

[Cory porter]

Something to look into for sure.

 

[JimPag]

I'm not sure how a custom action would facilitate switching barrels in a way that an off the shelf action would not, nor how the the selection of calibers are expanded. A custom action will be of some established length and require a bolt.

Steve. Most of my short range score rifles are 30 caliber and all are custom actions. I have 2 Bat actions, a 3lug and a Model B 2 lug. I have 5 different 30 caliber barrels that will screw onto either action. They both have the 308 size bolt faces. I can shoot a regular 30BR, a 30 Thrasher which the body is slightly shorter and the neck is longer than a 30BRX. I have a 30 BRX barrel, a 30 Dasher, and a 30Jaguar2 which is a modified 30x46. I also have 1 6BR barrel and 2 6x47L barrels. So that's 7 different calibers I can use in one action. In less than 5 minutes I can swap a barrel, snug it up and I'm good to go.