New 21st Century Shooting Hydraulic Arbor Press

[21shooter]

Hi,
Thanks Milo.
Traditional (Gear) Rack and Pinion Arbor Presses introduce interruptions (jumping & bouncing) in the stroke.

No Rack and Pinion in the 21st Century Shooting Hydro Arbor Press. It's a direct link compound lever, producing a very smooth easy to control stroke.

Yes, I could adapt to other presses, but there wouldn't be an improvement.

Thanks, John

 

[Jay Christopherson]

It's always cool to see new tools being developed and technology (whether brand new or adapted) being introduced to the sport. Very cool John.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Should be great..... how much $$$? I love my k&m, very repeatable results once you get a sytem. I hold the die in my left hand with my finger half on the die and half on the seat stem so I can feel when the bullet is seating. When the bullet steater stops, I give just enough pressure to get it moving again. I use just enough pressure to seat the bullet while watching the gauge. I record the highest number I see. You have to go slow with it. I would think this new press will require some technique as well.

 

[21shooter]

Hi Malibu,
Intro price $250.00. Taking pre-orders. Just E-mail: john@21stcenturyshooting.com

Very easy to get the hang of this Bullet Seater. You feel the bullet entering the mouth of the case, watch the gage. As soon as you feel the bullet moving. Record the PSI. As the seater top hits the top of the die, the gage will jump instantly.

It really is just that simple.

John

 

[DanConzo]

Thanks 21st Century. Keep up the good work.

 

[jlow]

I use the moving part as my reference on the K&M. I try to just over come the force needed and as it moves is the number i reference.The start and the spike at the end disregard. It has worked for me at 1000 yds. I see no reason why a hyd. pressure gage won't do the same. I have been using the K&M set up for so long i found the die stem is worn out. So my track record with the force indicator set up has proved successful and i see this the same way……. jim

This is exactly correct.

The start number is not important, nor is the large spike at the end when all you are reading is the pressure you are excerting on the press after the bullet is completely seated. You put pressure on the handle and the pressure rises and at some point, the bullet moves quickly and you get that bottom out effect at the end. It is the pressure where the bullet start to move quickly that you are interested in. Let's just say that this came from "the horse’s mouth" and is how I have been using it and it works perfectly.

Not hard to use once you understand what you are looking for. The hydraulic press works the same except that the force is excerting through and measured via a liquid but the way the pressure increase and let go at the critical point is exactly the same since it is completely dependent only on the interaction between the bullet and the case and all the press is doing is excerting the pressure and reading it. Speed is a factor but only if you go crazy in terms of speed.

Addenum: saved by the gator...

 

[Steve Blair]

...the pressure you are excreting on the press...
...except that the force is excreted through and measured via a liquid...
...the press is doing is excreting the pressure and reading it.

[br]
Not trying to pick on you, but let's agree to have no more talk of excretion. "Exert" is the verb you want. We see enough excretion elsewhere in the forum.

 

[jlow]

...the pressure you are excreting on the press...
...except that the force is excreted through and measured via a liquid...
...the press is doing is excreting the pressure and reading it.

[br]
Not trying to pick on you, but let's agree to have no more talk of excretion. "Exert" is the verb you want. We see enough excretion elsewhere in the forum.

Blame the auto correct....LOL! Thanks! ;D

 

[Rtheurer]

Let me see if I got this right from watching the Vid link. The Press is not really a Hydraulic assisted press Like I thought without watching the video. The purpose of hydraulics in this instance is to provide a readout or Number value to the operators seating pressure. There is no assistance form the system other than to provide the user with some good feedback. There for no LOSS of feel to the bullet seating proceedure from what we are all used too, since you still have to run the linkage like a normal Arbor press. What ever adavatage you get is from the mechanical linkage like all presses.
A couple of posters on this thread got me thinking ( without watching the Vid) that there is a Hydraulic assistance to the press. From what I can see that is not the case. It is just a cleaver way to adapt a pressure gage and numrical value to your bullet seating process. Simple but effective. Nice.

Am I looking at it the correct way?

RussT
RussT

 

[jlow]

I had similar thoughts and would agree that there is absolutely no hydraulic assistance but it appears that there is some hydraulic interface between the handle and the ram pushing down on the die. So the hydraulic aspect of it is how the force is transmitted to the force gauge and not the die?

 

[Steve Blair]

Hydraulic pressure is uniform throughout an unrestricted system. The gauge is measuring the same pressure exerted on the piston that moves the seater.

 

[21shooter]

Let me see if I got this right from watching the Vid link. The Press is not really a Hydraulic assisted press Like I thought without watching the video. The purpose of hydraulics in this instance is to provide a readout or Number value to the operators seating pressure. There is no assistance form the system other than to provide the user with some good feedback. There for no LOSS of feel to the bullet seating proceedure from what we are all used too, since you still have to run the linkage like a normal Arbor press. What ever adavatage you get is from the mechanical linkage like all presses.
A couple of posters on this thread got me thinking ( without watching the Vid) that there is a Hydraulic assistance to the press. From what I can see that is not the case. It is just a cleaver way to adapt a pressure gage and numrical value to your bullet seating process. Simple but effective. Nice.

Am I looking at it the correct way?

RussT
RussT

Hi Russ
The 21st century shooting hydro bullet seater has NO hydraulic
assistance
Thanks, John

 

[johara1]

John, I'm using the K&M set up and i use 2 lb. separate rounds in seating force. i see the gage is in 5 lb. per mark can you get a finer say 1 lb. per mark gage?……jim

 

[21shooter]

John, I'm using the K&M set up and i use 2 lb. separate rounds in seating force. i see the gage is in 5 lb. per mark can you get a finer say 1 lb. per mark gage?……jim

Hi Jim, My Gage is 2 psi . 8) Very easy to pick off 1psi.
Where do U see 5 lbs?? 8) ??? John

 

[21shooter]

Hi Everybody, Anyone out there that doesn't believe neck tension is directly correlated fps & es????
I Just proved it today. It definitely DOES!!

Thanks, John

 

[memilanuk]

Hello John,

I agree they *should* be correlated...

...but I haven't seen it yet.

I asked pretty much that same question in a recent thread on this forum; a few people said they see a benefit in group size by sorting by seating force - some by feel, some using a K&M press. I don't believe I've seen anyone give anything in the way of hard numbers for a comparison of MV one way vs. another. I'd very much welcome some input from you in that thread, if you have said numbers.

Monte

 

[stool]

and the full data set is ????

Hi Everybody, Anyone out there that doesn't believe neck tension is directly correlated fps & es????
I Just proved it today. It definitely DOES!!

Thanks, John

 

[21shooter]

Hello John,

I agree they *should* be correlated...

...but I haven't seen it yet.

I asked pretty much that same question in a recent thread on this forum; a few people said they see a benefit in group size by sorting by seating force - some by feel, some using a K&M press. I don't believe I've seen anyone give anything in the way of hard numbers for a comparison of MV one way vs. another. I'd very much welcome some input from you in that thread, if you have said numbers.

Monte

Hi Monte, We did a test today about 50rnds. I learned ALOT!!!! Got some unbelievable low E.S.
I have never seen before were talking 2-3fps with known psi and proper psi (neck tension)????????
More to follow later. John

 

[RDavies]

No doubt you are getting stinking rich making these tools which by all reports reduce verticals. I think to get super rich so you can dress like P Diddy, you need to develop tools which get rid of the horizontals like my guns seem to have at long range. ;D ;D ;D

 

[21shooter]

Hey Rod, Are you holding your gun sideways, ;D Hold the gun with the scope up. :LOL
Hope all is well John