Never ending "blue"

[Travelor]

I have started trying to get one of my target rifles so clean that when I use a copper solvent soaked patch and then patch out after leaving the bore "wet" for 2-3 minutes , I get zero blue on a patch .

This has become a real "never ending story" as I am on the second day of patching and waiting and still blue............ I'm now at about 20 or so cycles of patches wetted with Barret's Heavy Duty Bore Cleaner then patching out with a clean patch.

I have used a plastic slotted tip and pulled the wet patch with solvent through from the muzzle to eliminate the possibility of getting the bronze fitting of the cleaning rod to shedding any copper. I am still getting blue which to me indicates copper in the barrel.

Ideas? Comments (keep them civil please).

Anyone ever tried to get a clean, clean, clean barrel doing this? My normal routine has been to run two patches soaked with Butch's Bore Shine followed by a though brushing with a bronze brush wetted with Butch's and patching out and then a patch damp with Butch's Gun Oil before putting the gun away. The gun has 2500+ rounds through it and the barrel is a Krieger 30" Palma.


:-\

George

 

[Steve Blair]

George,

I had a similar experience with a 6mm Remington barrel that was nearly done. When I used the bore scope, at least 12" of the barrel was heat checked. It seems unlikely that is the case with a .308 barrel at ~2500 rounds. What does your scope show?

 

[Travelor]

No scope to look - but that probably is a blessing.

George

 

[fishoot]

If your jag or loop are made of brass, you will never get one without blue. If you need to clean it more than you have, use a steel or better, nylon jag.

 

[fdshuster]

George: I recently gave one of my barrels a thorough cleaning with Butch's, and in no time, after the black powder fouling (Varget) was gone, the patches were coming out as white as when they went in, even after soaking. Then went into the bore with my Hawkeye borescope and saw light copper streaks from about 4" in front of the chamber all the way to the muzzle, Krieger barrel with 465 rds. fired, 6BR. Since Butch's was not doing the job, tried Shooters Choice Copper solvent, patches came out white, copper remained. Then tried Sweet's with the same non-results. All this was after using my usual snug fitting bronze brushes from Sinclair. Then treated the bore with JB using a patch, followed by 10 strokes with a snug fitting bronze brush and all traces of copper are gone. For me, JB in the original blue label container remains the best way to get the copper and carbon fouling out. The liquid solvents I've tried just won't cut it. Without the borescope when the patches came out white I would have believed the bore was clean--- not at all!

 

[LHSmith]

This was also posted on BRC, and I gotta agree with Jackie Schmidt on this one. How many shots can you send down that barrel in that totally uncoppered state? The norm is probably that there will be some copper in the bore after a few shots. I tend to apply the #1 BR rule to every aspect of shooting small : "Do EVERTHING EXACTLY the SAME for EVERY shot." Translated, I would think for ultimate accuracy, each bullet's ride down the barrel should see exactly the same bore condition. In another anecdote, Jackie won a match despite the declaration by several shooters the evening before,the that his bore was severely fouled as evidenced by a borescope.
I do believe you have to keep on top of the fouling issue so it won't build up to excess, but an ultra clean bore may be counterproductive.

 

[fdshuster]

LHSMITH; Absolutely agree with you. After cleaning my barrels down to bare metal, with the JB, they gotta have 5 to 10 fouler shots before they start to group again. I would never want to clean to that degree then try to shoot a match. My idea, as yours, is to keep the copper and carbon fouling under control. Even when using the JB I keep the strokes to a minimum monitoring the progress after each 10 to 12 strokes, and in fact, do leave just a little fouling. Might take it to bare metal, with a light coating of oil at the end of the season when they may not be fired for 3 or 4 months.

 

[LHSmith]

If your jag or loop are made of brass, you will never get one without blue. If you need to clean it more than you have, use a steel or better, nylon jag.

Actually, I see this statement all the time and a patch coated with Butches Bore Shine will not turn blue when held against a brass jag, at least not for the limited time a patched jag sees in the bore. Touch the patch to a bronze brush and it turns blue in an instant.I would stay clear of a steel jag.

 

[LHSmith]

Frank- you mention original JB. Did they change the formula, or are you still working from your original can? I have started to use Danzac and shoot through the whole match without cleaning, something I couldn't do before without dropping points. However, in addition to BBS and a bronze brush, I also use Iosso on a patch at the end of the match with the barrel still warm.

 

[280man]

Just curious how's does it shoot? Does the little bit of copper left in there hurt anything?

 

[fdshuster]

"LH": When I say "original" JB what I really mean is the original formula(?) in the blue label plastic container. They also make a red label that is more of a polisher, tried it & found no advantage. A friend of mine has been using Danzac for years in his 308, does minimal cleaning & I expected to see a really dirty bore when he asked to see the bore condition with my Hawkeye. I was very surprised at how clean it was. Just proving again there are a lot of good products out there that really do work as advertised. One of the top gunsmith/rifle builder/BR competitors (and a winner) in our area uses IOSSO, and I would also. May even give it a try when my getting low supply of JB runs dry.