Neil Jones looking for help! (Update with die pics)

[Ghengisahn175]

Admins, if this is in the wrong section please move to the correct section. I am just looking to help out Neil as I own a set of his dies and as a young shooter, would like to get future dies from him.

Gents,

I just got done talking to Neil Jones on the phone. I'll be frank: He's 78 and looking for someone to take up the mantle of continuing his business. He makes a really unique die that I use for my 260 rem (and I love it). Unfortunately he isn't tech savvy and doesn't have a way to put out that he's looking for help and someone to pass his business along to.

He's looking for someone who has a passion for the business of making his custom dies. If anyone is interested give him a call. So far he's just been asking people that he knows but hasn't gotten much back.

So here is his information:
website: http://www.neiljones.com/
phone #: 814-763-2769
He lives in Saegertown, PA

 

[JRS]

Re: Neil Jones looking for help!

I could be wrong, however, I believe Neil Jones to be quite "tech savvy".

 

[Ghengisahn175]

Re: Neil Jones looking for help!

Haha let me rephrase... Computer internet blog post savvy

 

[40X Guy]

Re: Neil Jones looking for help!

I've known Neil for pretty close to 20 years and live about 8 miles from him. He has built me dies, bushings, many trigger jobs on 700's and rifles all at extraordinary quality and precision. I will say that thru the years he has had people help him but they did not last long as they just did not understand the quality that Neil brings to the table and did not want to hang around to figure it out. I've been his go to guy for vehicle repairs and work on his motorhomes at his house as needed. Going back 3-4 years he was telling me he was looking for someone to take over and continue the precision and workmanship that he brings to all of us shooters. He's a lone wolf so to speak and has built his business with blood, sweat and tears. I have seen his inner workings in his shop and always leave just shaking my head and thinking he will forget more than most guys will ever know in his line of work. He is located north of Meadville, Pa. by a few miles which is the true tool and die capital of the world. And that is where he cut his teeth. He does more than just build reloading equipment and build rifles. Love walking into his shop and seeing the organized "mess" and the man puts in 10 hour days still. Totally old school and he does not hang out on any internet forums and as mentioned he is most tech savvy but as far as computers he could care less. His wife Judy helps out massively with phone calls and shipping products but I'm quite sure they hired out someone to build his website. One hell of a craftsman!

Frank

 

[Ghengisahn175]

Re: Neil Jones looking for help!

It's pretty hard to find reviews about his dies.

I love his sizing die...
Want one for every caliber I own and plan to own!

Not sure if anyone makes a micrometer sizing die like he does.

 

[amlevin]

Re: Neil Jones looking for help!

In most cases, a very successful, precision product, is more the product of the man rather than his machines.

In the industry I retired from several machine manufacturers that had reputations for being the best in their industries became huge blobs of "steaming excrement" once the "founders" sold out and turned operations over to the purchasers.

In just about every precision product there is an ingredient that can't be transferred by merely purchasing the company.

I don't know about Neil Jones' products but I'd wager that the only opportunity to have his level of quality and precision to remain after he leaves has passed. If he'd brought on an apprentice 10 years ago and brought him up to speed, then there was a chance. Going forward it'll take a lot of luck.

 

[rogn]

Re: Neil Jones looking for help!

Unfortunately this scenario has played out time after time if the founder has not brought an apprentice who thru sweat-eq learns and earns the business. It seems rare when a first echelon business is purchased by outsiders that is continues on its successful track. Rare is the person who wants to buy a business and put in 10 our days. As Amlevin said it will take a lot of luck going forward.

 

[40X Guy]

Re: Neil Jones looking for help!

In most cases, a very successful, precision product, is more the product of the man rather than his machines.

In the industry I retired from several machine manufacturers that had reputations for being the best in their industries became huge blobs of "steaming excrement" once the "founders" sold out and turned operations over to the purchasers.

In just about every precision product there is an ingredient that can't be transferred by merely purchasing the company.

I don't know about Neil Jones' products but I'd wager that the only opportunity to have his level of quality and precision to remain after he leaves has passed. If he'd brought on an apprentice 10 years ago and brought him up to speed, then there was a chance. Going forward it'll take a lot of luck.

Excellent post!

 

[TAJ45]

Re: Neil Jones looking for help!

Even having an apprenticeship behind me + 20yrs experience, I wouldn't feel comfortable unless I could be at his elbow for at least a year and that w/o any major breaks in "training".

I've been in enough shops and plants to know there is always something to learn about a set up, process or technique. I've worked with some very, very talented folks and know I could live 3 lifetimes and still be able to learn more.

I'd be tempted but at 68.5 years, it's just a little late. A good bud of mine approached him in '90 but he wasn't ready to sell then and understandably so - 25 years of water under the physical bridge is a lot of water.

Imagine if the gent would have a catastrophic health event a month after the papers were signed.......... I know, a contract can be written in any manner but it would really leave the potential buyer hanging out in the breeze.

I hope it goes well for Mr. Jones.
PS. Reminds me of Giles. He built a premier accurized .45 as well as accurized other brands of target pistols, mainly for BE. His son had no interest in that type of work so when Mr. Giles died, a lot went with him and no one in the shop to carry on.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Re: Neil Jones looking for help!

If I didn't live at the exact opposite end of the country, I'd call him in a heartbeat. It's not too often you get the chance to work with someone like that, to learn what they know and carry on a tradition with such a good name and reputation. But, like TAJ45 said, it would take a lot of time and dedication and that's tough to do when you can't just walk into the shop at a whim.

 

[Ghengisahn175]

Re: Neil Jones looking for help!

___________________________________-update 4 August 2015

Fellas, I've gotten several questions about why Neil's sizing die is unique. His website doesn't really explain it so with his permission I will post a diagram of his sizing die.

His procedure for getting a sizing die made is as follows:
send him at least 3 virgin fired brass (or factory) from YOUR chamber. He will measure and send you back a neck sizing die.

Use this neck sizing die for two additional firings and send him back the cases. He will measure and send you back a finished FL sizing die.

His FL sizing die serves two main purposes:
1. FL size the case minimally to match your chambers so you dont overwork your brass.
2. His unique bushing will also neck size & headspace the shoulder. His sizing die has a micrometer feature so that you're able to make fine adjustments without unscrewing the die or trial and error.

I'm only a tactical shooter, but with my current 260 remington, I have 240 pieces of lapua 260 remington brass. I dont have counts on how many times they've been fired, they havent been annealed or weight sorted.

My ES is in the 20's and my SD is between 5-7 (again not bench rest loaded). The barrel has over 2500+ round count and still shooting very well (for me. still sub-moa with groups clustering).

I'm not saying its his dies thats allowing this but to give the readers a general idea on # of firings, etc.

On another note of annealing, Neil Jones advises AGAINST annealing when using his brass because its unnecessary and counter intuitive to his die sizing process. He also has his opinion on annealing and we'll leave it at that.

Bottom line this post was to serve as an answer to why his sizing die is unique.

 

[Ghengisahn175]

Re: Neil Jones looking for help!

additional photos of the bushing itself

 

[JRS]

To this day, I have my NJ bushing FL die in 6PPC. It has never sized the entire neck.