Need to modify my Lee die???

[Never Forget]

I wont go on a rant on how frustrated I am once again at my cheap Lee dies, I should have learned by now but hey they're cheap.

That said I bought a Ruger Ranch 300 Black out and cant get my rounds to chamber. I have a 300 BO AR that I've loaded for many times with no issues and fantastic 1/2 moa results. I forced an empty case to chamber (it was hard but not stupid hard) and measured the shoulder before anfter, it bumped it back .006.

Normally when I full size my AR brass I have a slight cam over of my RCBS press and I don't have any issues, with a heavy cam over I still need a minimum of .006 for my brass to chamber in this rifle.

So my question is, am I better off surface grinding about .010 off the face off my shell holder to allow the shoulder to get bumped back farther or should I face .010 off the bottom of the die? I'm leaning toward the die as I don't want this shell holder to get mixed up with my regular 223 holder and have issues there.

For the heck of it I checked my fired brass from my AR and the shoulder is only moving .002 forward from a sized piece, I like a little more set back on my AR brass than that, .005 at a minimum. I've had no chambering issues with it so far. This happened to me with Lee dies for my 338 Lapua too, needed to dust .005 off the shell holder or I couldn't move the shoulder back at all. I returned that set and bought some Whidden dies, best decision I ever made.

Thanks, John

 

[Dusty Stevens]

modify the die right after you place an order for a suitable replacement. leave it out on the bench so you'll remember on the next set of dies what brand not to buy.

 

[jepp2]

So my question is, am I better off surface grinding about .010 off the face off my shell holder to allow the shoulder to get bumped back farther or should I face .010 off the bottom of the die?

If you need to remove metal, my choice is always the shellholder. Why? It is much softer and easier to remove metal from and it is much cheaper to buy another (than a die is). Dies are really hard.

And before you bash the Lee die too much, I had to remove 0.010" from the shellholder for my REDDING 223 AI die to sufficiently set the shoulder back.

 

[6MMsteve]

you can grind the shell holder if you have a surface grinder, I used a right hand angle grinder to do mine, it was a little off but I don't mind, it works and the cases are straight

 

[Shawnba67]

The shell holder is $5, I have ground a couple.

 

[fguffey]

Normally when I full size my AR brass I have a slight cam over of my RCBS press and I don't have any issues, with a heavy cam over I still need a minimum of .006 for my brass to chamber in this rifle.

How much cam over do you have on your RCBS press? I have three RCBS Rock Chucker presses; not one of the three cams over. I have two Rock Chuckers that have Piggy Back 11 attachments installed; problem, the Piggy Back 11 attachment has a one way clutch. I understand that means nothing to a reloader on this forum, the one way clutch is a mind boggling thing, The clutch is part of the auto index and advance system. If the Rock Chucker was a cam over press it would not work with the Piggy Back 11 attachments.

I have a few spare parts for the Piggy Back attachments including the one way clutch. And then there is the bump. If the Rock Chucker was a cam over press it would also be a bump press, bump; another one of those mind boggling things.

.006"? Must be a mind boggling thing, when sizing a case there is nothing beyond minimum/full length sizing. Minimum/full length sizing is .004" shorter than a go-gage length chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face.. I have no ideal why a reloader will not dedicate enough time to determine the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face.

When I am sizing and or forming cases for short chambers I raise the case head off the deck of the shell holder with a feeler gage. When I am having trouble chambering a case I have sixed I measure the gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder. Any part of the case that is protruding from the die and holding the die off the shell holder is not being sized.

There are at least three ways to determine if the case is winning or the press is winning when sizing, All of my cases have an ability to resist sizing; some cases have more ability to resist sizing than other cases.

F. Guffey

 

[dfrosch]

The rounds chamber in the AR , and give 1/2" groups, but won't chamber in the Ruger? These rounds are from the same dies?

If I'm reading this correctly, the issue is with the Ruger, not the dies.

 

[fguffey]

I have three grinders that are designed to make pilots and head space gages, and they square ends and grind angles, , dies to length and the deck height of shell holders. I do not use the grinders for grinding dies and shell holders because I have never found it necessary; but: if I did I would want to know 'how much to grind?'.

F. Guffey

 

[6MMsteve]

Try one of those cheap diamond hones from Harbor Freight and some elbow grease. Mount it on a flat steel plate. I used 1/2" flat stock. Seems to be close enough. I use a scrap piece of marble counter top for a 'standard'. Perfect? Nope. But you're gonna play heck finding out just how much it's out. Mix a bit of JB weld or Acraglas up and use that to capture the diamond hone.

Keep checkin' it with your mic and adjust pressure as necessary while honing.

The only thing power equipment does for you is allow you to jack stuff up a whole lot faster if'n you don't know what you're doin'.

And if you're not measurin', well . . . . .

YMMV.

I don't have a clue but it works lol

 

[#40Fan]

I wouldn't touch the die or the shell holder if you are getting that good of a grouping with the 300 BLK. I'd buy another cheap shell holder and modify it and mark it with paint or something to keep it noticeably different.

Don't forget with BLK brass that is formed from .223 that some brands of brass have a thicker area where the neck will be formed. Just in case it is your tighter necks causing the set back.

 

[KMart]

I wouldn't touch the die or the shell holder if you are getting that good of a grouping with the 300 BLK. I'd buy another cheap shell holder and modify it and mark it with paint or something to keep it noticeably different.

Don't forget with BLK brass that is formed from .223 that some brands of brass have a thicker area where the neck will be formed. Just in case it is your tighter necks causing the set back.

Just a different line of thinking. Why would you need another shell holder? You are taking metal off the TOP of the shell holder where it contacting the die so you have more room for the cartridge case to go into the die.
You are not changing the dimension/height of the shell holder where the bottom of the case sits and provides the lift of the case into the die.

 

[Bindi2]

Just a different line of thinking. Why would you need another shell holder? You are taking metal off the TOP of the shell holder where it contacting the die so you have more room for the cartridge case to go into the die.
You are not changing the dimension/height of the shell holder where the bottom of the case sits and provides the lift of the case into the die.

You can screw the die down further. Your chambers are not the same, there is nothing wrong with the Lee die. RCBS or Redding make shell holders of different hights for some calibres. If not buy another holder check it before grinding for fit then hit a true grind wheel for several thou removal does not have to be perfectly level it just needs to work.

 

[BoydAllen]

I would modify the shell holder and file a groove in its edge to remind you that it had been modified. Also, the issue may be how your barrel is chambered not the die. Unless you have checked the barrel with the proper gauge I would not assume that the die was the culprit.

 

[jepp2]

You can always slide a "trimmed" feelers gauge under the case head in the shellholder to raise it slightly (not 0.010") which will set the shoulder back further and give you an idea how much needs removed.

 

[BoydAllen]

You can always slide a "trimmed" feelers gauge under the case head in the shellholder to raise it slightly (not 0.010") which will set the shoulder back further and give you an idea how much needs removed.

Just remember to remove the decapping/expading assembly when you do this, in case it is set so that the decapping pin protrudes below the sized case's head at the top of the sizing stroke.

 

[orbitup]

I had a problem with loaded rounds not fitting in a new barrel and was able to track down the problem to a bent expander rod. My ham-handedness in forming brass must have been rough on it. Check that before you do any grinding.

 

[fguffey]

RCBS or Redding make shell holders of different hights for some calibres.

Redding makes competition shell holders with different deck heights; they make 5 shell holders at start at +.002" and go up to + 10" in a group of 5. The shell holders cost about $40.00 a set. A reloader with shop skills can adjust the die off the shell holder with a feeler gage to accomplish the same result. Again; not a problem for me but the Redding shell holders are on the + side of minimum length, the shell holders do not work when the reloader wants to shorten the case from the shoulder to the case head.

It seems something a reloader can not comprehend when they sized a case that will not chamber the case is longer than the chamber from the shoulder to the case head than the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face. I have no problem sizing cases for 'short chambers'. When I start to ream a chamber I start with cases that are formed for short chambers, when I purchase a barrel that has a short chamber I want top know 'how short?'.

And then there is always the possibility the case has more resistance to sizing than the press can overcome.

F. Guffey

 

[normmatzen]

I have been using LEE collette neck sizing dies for a long time for long range bench rest. I have had no issues other than ones I have caused!

When you use LEE dies, don't forget they make presses that do NOT cam over. Be aware of that when you set them up to LEE's directions (You do read the directions?). Some of LEE's dies work better with a cam-over action like their Collette dies, but you have to understand the directions to allow you to set them up slightly different in a cam-over press.

I do use Redding short body dies for case sizing prior to neck sizing with my LEE neck die.

 

[NorCalMikie]

with a heavy cam over I still need a minimum of .006 for my brass to chamber in this rifle.

Sounds like a chamber/head space issue.
As far as grinding a shell holder. Got a drill press? Chuck the shell holder up and run it down on an oiled sharpening stone. Check it often to see if it does what you need.
And what's the deal with no can over? Never heard of that. I use an RCBS Rockchucker and can get "camover" up the wazoo.
Also, IMHO, Lee dies and presses are crap. Wore one out + dies doing mill spec 5.56 and 7.62 brass.