Need some help on choosing a mill dot scope

[Road_Clam]

My plan is to take a 3 day precision scoped rifle instructional class at the Sig academy later this year. I want to fit my precision .243 R700 with a 8-25x mill dot scope. Budget is up to $1300. I'm SO confused as to all the proprietary brand scope reticles , which would suit me the best ? I am thinking just a simple mill dot scope would suit my needs as far as entry level traditional ranging using dots ? Here's the class i'm interested in attending :

https://www.sigsaueracademy.com/productdisplay/advanced-precision-scoped-rifle

 

[R.Morehouse]

SWFA......Check out their site and brand. They may have what you need at the price point....

 

[Delfuego]

Mil-Dot is not great. I would definitely look at at least the gen2 mil-dot or newer. This will give you .5 mil holds. A traditional mil-dot has 1 mil (or .8) between each mark, that is too much. For shooting small target at various long ranges you will need to have very precise wind holds. something with .5 mil will help you. Even better is 1 MOA or .2 mil markings, this give you finer measurements.

An example of this would be a target that needs a wind hold of .6 mil. With a mil-dot scope, you would essentially hold in between the mil-dots favoring to .6. This is not precise at all. you are realy SWAG'ing it. If you had a .5 mil reticle, you could hold the edge of the plate on your .5 mil reticle mark. this would essentially place .6 on the center of the plate. Better yet, if you reticle has .2 mil markins (or 2/10th), you cold hold your .6 on the center of the plate for a very precise wind hold. Reticles are really preference and none are perfect. Just always make sure you knobs match your reticle, IE: Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA. You don't want to have to do math on the fly.

In your price range I like the Burris XTR 4-20/5-25 and the Vortex Gen1 Razor. Both are good, strong scopes and will get you where you need to be. Don't cheap out on rings either, get some Seekins, Badgers, Nightforce.

PS: The class you linked to is the "Advanced" class with prerequisites.

 

[Road_Clam]

Thanks for the feedback Delfuego, here's a very interesting Burris scope that has received excellent revievs and the G2B reticle seems simplistic and is hashed to .5 mil's :

http://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/xtr-ii-riflescopes-series/xtr-ii-riflescope-5-25x50mm

Seems to fit my needs well.

PS, I contacted Sig about the prerequisites, and where I have previously enrolled in Sig's "reach for a thousand" long range class , that class will fulfill the prerequisite.

 

[CharlieNC]

For your list, add first focal plane (ffp) so the reticle maintains calibration across the magnification range. I use a Sightron SIII 6-24 with mil lines and ffp. It has functioned well for several years and costs around $700. SIII is noted for great glass. At the range I continue to look through other more expensive scopes and honestly have not seen anything with better optics that I think is worth spending. Negatives are no zero stop (I'm going to install a spacer), and the turret is fixed with a single screw friction fit so it must be carefully tightened.

 

[Rob01]

Delfuego gave some good advice. If you are looking at the Burris I would get the SCR reticle version. More break down and if they teach you ranging in that class you will like having the .1 mil marks on the outer area. The G2B will work but the SCR will work better when you start using the reticle for holds of any type.

 

[Delfuego]

I agree with Rob, the SCR reticles is better than the G2B, but again reticles are really a preference item. Also I think the 4-20x in the Burris XTR II is better than the 5-25x and a little cheaper. The Burris can be found for around $800-$900.

The Gen1 Vortex Razor is a little bit better scope and you might be able to find one for around $1300 if you try really hard, the going rate is closer to $1600.

I did own the SWFA 5-25HD and it is a very good scope too! Good glass and super durable.

I will always recommend better optics if you can afford them, it is money in the bank if you really like long range precision shooting and plan to continue in the sport.

 

[Road_Clam]

OK so here is where things get "fuzzy" (no pun intended). I primarily shoot RH but over the past few years have been training myself to shoot LH. Reason being is I am extremely nearsighted and my right eye has poorer vision than my left. I have been on a mission to learn millspec irons and this is do-able with my left eye, not my right. Same goes with identifying very fine hash marks in the scope reticle. If I shoot RH/RE i have a very difficult time identifying the hashes. If I shoot LH it's a bit clearer. So I need to be careful when choosing a very finely hashed reticle. This is the primary reasoning for leaning towards the "less busy" G2B reticle.

 

[Dgd6mm]

There is a SCR for sale in the classifieds by clownbuster . New $1050.......
Bingo, good deal

 

[hogan]

I would buy new, and be sure your dealer will allow you to return the scope, even if it has been mounted. Brownells is about the best resource for major purchase with their no time limit return policy. If you want used, be sure seller agrees to take back their scope if it don't work for you. Leupold Mark 4 fixed power scopes (6x, 10x, & 16x) were available in duplex and 1mil spaced mil-dots, plus target dot. The M3 turret system has 1moa elevation and 1/2 moa windage. The Elevation turret has a dial which corresponds to specific ammunition for .300win & .308win, later adding .223 and .30-06. Leupold will also make you a custom dial for your specific load & ctg.

Thing is, you can dial from 100-1200yds on the turret. You do have 1moa per click which is kind of large, but with dial tuned to your trajectory, the system works.
Optics are not "great glass" but they are very good. I have 15/20 vision. Of course, my left eye is the better one. Good for driving, not for rh shooting. Not griping about 20 vision in my right eye, I am very blessed.

Lots of solutions out there for you. Just find someone or a company that will work with you. Wish you the best!

 

[BrandonK]

Get an FFP scope, you'll be able to pick the reticle up easier whichever eye you decide to shoot with. I'd also look at swfa in your budget. Good luck, let us know what you get and how you like it.

 

[Gary Wiant]

Check out the new Vortex Viper Gen II 5-25x the reticle is lighted you can choose between a couple reticlesighted when ordering, the General 2 have Razor glass & true zero stop turrets. They aren't out everywhere yet but I got my hands on one to check out at a show this weekend very impressive

 

[BP1]

OP I have the gen 1,11 and the burris 5x25 scr scopes and with your budget i would pick up the gen1 you have the miling reticle at the top of the scope without all the other stuff in your way to confuse you.I know some will say you can mil vertical and horizontal I always just do the vertical miling I have been thru training courses and they only taught vertical miling.Rob1 I can't belive you gave some love to the burris lol!!

 

[Rob01]

OP I have the gen 1,11 and the burris 5x25 scr scopes and with your budget i would pick up the gen1 you have the miling reticle at the top of the scope without all the other stuff in your way to confuse you.I know some will say you can mil vertical and horizontal I always just do the vertical miling I have been thru training courses and they only taught vertical miling.Rob1 I can't belive you gave some love to the burris lol!!

Was just saying IF he went Burris that the SCR was a better route

But of course the Vortex Gen II PST will be a staunch competitor to it when it hits the street. The Razor 5-20 at mentioned is also a great option.

 

[rcparker1]

I would go with the ffp as mentioned. Aslo from personal experience and a mistake, if you are shooting mil get a scope with mil turrets. If shooting moa get a reticle and turrets in moa. First long range scope I got was mil/moa. PITA. Don't know why they even made such a abortion

 

[Road_Clam]

I'm generally a moa known distance target shooter. I am familiar with basic mil's math, but I am far quicker with moa math. Do you think I should go with the standard mil's scope or will moa suit me better ? What's the cons about using moa reticle for ranging ?

 

[Auto-X Fil]

I would suggest either the Viper PST II, or the SWFA 5-20HD. Both are excellent scopes for the money. The SWFA has better glass, but the Vortex has better ergonomics and feature set. You can't lose with either, and resale is phenomenal - either one will make a Toyota Tacoma look as though it depreciates like used underwear.

 

[Auto-X Fil]

I'm generally a moa known distance target shooter. I am familiar with basic mil's math, but I am far quicker with moa math. Do you think I should go with the standard mil's scope or will moa suit me better ? What's the cons about using moa reticle for ranging ?

Zero issues with MOA. Mils are fast to pick up, and they provide a much better range of scope options. But, a good MOA/MOA scope works just fine, if that is what you're comfortable with.

 

[BP1]

I know when I bought my first gen 1 in mil/mil I had no idea about a mil scope but man once I figured it out I just couldn't do without one now.What I really like about it is the mil reticle pretty much tells you where to hold if you miss,how much correction to make for the next shot.I shot a match this past weekend where one stage had three shots at 950 and three at 983 and three at 930 that had a 2 minute time limit I missed one of the 983 low left and cleaned the rest went 8 for 9 and my gen11 was set on 15x it was clear as a crystal.I keep wanting to get a 4x27 but never catch myself shooting over 15x.

 

[Rob01]

I'm generally a moa known distance target shooter. I am familiar with basic mil's math, but I am far quicker with moa math. Do you think I should go with the standard mil's scope or will moa suit me better ? What's the cons about using moa reticle for ranging ?

What math? The only math you should be doing is when you need to range a target and then either formula should be done on a calculator or using a Mildot Master, which does both MOA and Mils. You run your data and dial it on with a mil scope just like a MOA. You miss the target then you use the reticle, which is a ruler infront of your eye, and measure the correction and either dial it on or hold the correction. There is no need for linear inches or CM in either MOA or mils.

That said if you are comfortable with MOA there is nothing wrong with it. Just a different way to get to the same place. Most manufacturers have MOA and mil scopes so you can go either way.