looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds. **update and range report**

[TikkaSporter]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

I don't shoot 1000 yard competition, or any competition, but have had plenty of success taking the 308 out to 1000 yards accurately. The 168's are a no-go for sure, they weren't much good past 400 yards. The 190 SMK's did OK, but my best success was with the 208 gr A-Max and RE-17 powder.

1:11 twist 23" barrel, Winchester brass, 50 gr RE-17 (compressed load), Fed 210M primers, 3.002" COAL, 2660 fps... And they even feed from the magazine in my Tikka M595 Master Sporter. They'll stay sub MOA at 1000 most days.

 

[Road_Clam]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

When a subsonic bullet goes thru the target in the pits there is almost no aerodynamic sound from the bullet. There is some sound from the bullet penetrating the paper. Sometimes the score is ok from the subsonic bullets but most times they are not flying straight on and things are not well.

So this must present a challenge when pulling targets. I always listen for the "whip crack" watching my berm for the sand "poof" , and then pull the target. I would imagine you must have to be paying 101% attention to see a shot hit your target if there's no sound.

 

[Road_Clam]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

If you're going to take that class then check your scope elevation adjustments. What I mean is, you will have to start out at just 100yds and they will increase the distance gradually before you get to 1k. Some scopes don't have enough elevation adjustment to cover that much of a change.

I have a Sightron SIII 8-32x and when I was ready to qualify for my clubs 600 yd range I was advised to check my scope for adequate elevation. I have an additional 18 MOA (beyond my current 200 meter zero). For 600 yds I didn't even need a 20 moa scope rail. I also have spare 20 MOA scope base if I max out my elevation for getting out to 1K.

 

[Rtheurer]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

Road Clam

Did you get a chance to load your ammo and test yet? Not that you need ANY more advice and I promise not to go down some 168gr SMK rant. Went out this last weekend to help a friend with his new long range rifle and took my trusty 308 Win with. We shot all the way out to 1150 yards with both his 260 and my 308. My go to load is Left over used Lapua Brass from my Palma rifle. A stout load of Varget, CCI BR2's, and the tried and true 175gr Sierra match King until I run out of them then Ill switch to the 175gr Berger BTLR I have on hand. All at magazine length.
My Barrel is 25 1/2" 1:11.5 twist. Scope is a VXIII 6.5-20X50 with a 20MOA Badger base.

I think you would do very well with the 175gr class of bullets for what your trying to do.
Keep us posted on how it all turns out. im kinda interested to see what your thoughts are after you have made your trip.
Good Luck sir.
Russ T

 

[Road_Clam]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

Road Clam

Did you get a chance to load your ammo and test yet? Not that you need ANY more advice and I promise not to go down some 168gr SMK rant. Went out this last weekend to help a friend with his new long range rifle and took my trusty 308 Win with. We shot all the way out to 1150 yards with both his 260 and my 308. My go to load is Left over used Lapua Brass from my Palma rifle. A stout load of Varget, CCI BR2's, and the tried and true 175gr Sierra match King until I run out of them then Ill switch to the 175gr Berger BTLR I have on hand. All at magazine length.
My Barrel is 25 1/2" 1:11.5 twist. Scope is a VXIII 6.5-20X50 with a 20MOA Badger base.

I think you would do very well with the 175gr class of bullets for what your trying to do.
Keep us posted on how it all turns out. im kinda interested to see what your thoughts are after you have made your trip.
Good Luck sir.
Russ T

Russ,
Still digesting opinions and experiences at this point. I've got a slightly unique situation with respect to my 1000 yd shoot. The situation is that the Sig Academy's 1K class is $300 and i'm planning on taking the class in the spring. I have no other means of testing my loads except for out to 600 yds. The other issue is my club closes down our 600 yd range for the winter so this forces me to test at 200 meters (open year round). I'm still undecided as to exactly what bullet I should use. Bottom line I need to be 100% confident the bullet I choose will perform reliably. I'm thinking even though I have not had the best accuracy testing 175 smk thus far, I should probably go ahead, use the 175 smk's and just do the best I can hopefully find an accurate node with velocities into the upper 2600's . I will certainly post follow up's as I test over the winter. No daylight after work during the week sucks for testing (lack of) at the range !

 

[chapstix97]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

I was at the sig academy in October for their close quarter pistol course which was outside during a windy rainy day. I signed up for the rifle course within 20 days of my pistol course to save 20% so I'll be up there in the spring too. I did a one quick load development with 175 smk. For the past 25 years I used only168s because my range have only 200 yards.

I loaded up 175 smk with varget 42 thu 43 grains. Lapua cases, fed match primers .020 from leade. My best groups were between 42.2 thu 42.4 grains produced .5 moa 5 round groups at 200 yards. Only shot 10 rounds of each load so it's not conclusive. I'll probably run the loads again to confirm the groups and load up 150 rounds right before the course.

I've shot fgmm with the 168s and use them as my control round. If my loads shoot better than fgmm and the felt recoil is about the same,its good to go if especially if the target will be steel plate like at sig academy.

I'll be up there for the June class. If it rains I'm going to use their rig and buy their ammo. Won't have time to clean and wipe down my rig with oil after course. We were dismissed right after my pistol course. I just wiped down my glock in my car and drove home.

 

[js223]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

I have a Sightron SIII 8-32x and when I was ready to qualify for my clubs 600 yd range I was advised to check my scope for adequate elevation. I have an additional 18 MOA (beyond my current 200 meter zero). For 600 yds I didn't even need a 20 moa scope rail. I also have spare 20 MOA scope base if I max out my elevation for getting out to 1K.

I ran some quick numbers for the loads you listed in your first post and my guess is, for 1000yds, you might need another ~31MOA for the 155 Scenar load and ~35MOA for the 175 SMK load. Therefore I think you're going to need to use that 20MOA rail, then re-zero at 200 meters of course. With that done, you can check again how much is left in your elevation adjustment. If the rail still does not give you enough, you can use Burris Signature Zee rings which have different thickness inserts available to slope the scope.

 

[Bindi2]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

Road clam put your 20moa rail on increase the Varget load. I shoot 1000yd F/O with 175gn Bergers or SMKs from a 300m zero. 24MOA up for 1000yds. Your Varget load will be somewhere around mid 40gns.

 

[Road_Clam]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

Well, was able to get to the range with my 1st round of testing. I chose 175 Nosler CC's and 4064. Started out at 42.4 and worked up to 43.5. Max suggested load is 44 , but I find that my velocities exceed Lymans data so I generally like to stop .5 gr shy of Lymans suggested max. Also got some chrono #'s which will be very helpfull moving foreward.

42.5 gr. = .886" group @ 200 meters. Low=2551, hi=2619 avg=2580, ES=67 , SD=30 . For some reason I always get pretty excessive ES's with 4064 , I carefully trickle up so I don't think it's powder charge ?

weather : 38F, calm wind , some drizzle.
43 gr = 2.41" group, low=2622 , hi=2685 avg=2660 es=62 sd=23

43.5 = .811" group , low=2656 , hi=2685 , avg=2670 es=29 , sd= 12

So looks like 43.5 is a great load, and looks like I will just stay into the supersonic threshold (at least in theory per my ballistics app). I'm hearing a lot of veteran LR guys like 4064. I also read that the military used a very similar 4064 type powder for their M188LR load. My next powder to test is my tried and true Win 748.

 

[broncman]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

Save yourself some headache....try the 185 Juggernauts and if you barrel will stabilize them , USE them!!!

Trust me and a lot of others, in a 12 twist , they are the best thing going. Easy to tune and very accurate. I think easier to tune than 175 SMK....

 

[Road_Clam]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

Save yourself some headache....try the 185 Juggernauts and if you barrel will stabilize them , USE them!!!

Trust me and a lot of others, in a 12 twist , they are the best thing going. Easy to tune and very accurate. I think easier to tune than 175 SMK....

It's funny you say this, one of the salesman at my LGS who is an expert reloader and has the same exact rifle as me swears by loading 180 gr smk's . I'll pick up a box of 185's and try them. I don't have anything in the 180's so might as well give them a shot..

 

[jim_k]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

180 SMK's are very fine and accurate bullets, but at 1,000 yards, they are not the equal of Berger or JLK VLD's. Been there, doing that (until I run out of them.)
Jim

 

[barefooter56]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

Road_Clam,
Try the 175 OTM and 185 OTM Juggernauts. Both are a Hybrid design and are very tolerant of jump. Also they can be seated to magazine length. You can run the range data on our website. Use the G7 BC and enter in your data. If you need any load information please feel free to contact us in this string or at TechSupport@bergerbullets.com .
Take care<
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

 

[barefooter56]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

gstaylog,
You are correct. That's what I get for trying to do two things at once. My apologies Road_Clam.
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

 

[barefooter56]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

Rich,
If you didn't get my message on loads here it is again for the Berger 175 and 185 grain bullets.
VARGET :
175 grain = 38.5 MIN - 43.0 MAX approximate velocities 2361 -2615 fps 101% fill ratio
185 grain = 37.5 MIN - 41.6 MAX approximate velocities 2306 -2535 fps 102% fill ratio
IMR4064
175 grain =37.5 MIN 42.0 MAX approximate velocities 2333 - 2590 fps 98% fill ratio
185 grain = 37.0 MIN 41.0 MAX approximate velocities 2307 - 2532 fps 103% fill ratio
N550
175 grain =42.0 MIN - 46.6 MAX approximate velocities 2361- 2629 fps 102% fill ratio
185 grain = 41.5 MIN - 46.0 MAX approximate velocities 2346 - 2606 fps 106% fill ratio
Watch the N550 . IT CAN GET HOTTER WITH AGE so re-test your load before each season.
Sorry for the messed up response before :-\
If you need any thing else Rich . Please let us know.
Take care,
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

 

[Rustystud]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

I build a few 1000 yd 308s. The Palma shooters are limited to 155 -156 grain bullets. There fore many use tight bore .298" with 1:13" barrels 30-32". The best and most successful FTR shooters that are competitive shoot bullets 185- 215 grains in loose bore 1:9, 1:10, 1:11, and 1:12, 30"-32" barrels. These heavy high BC bullets need to achieve 2,600 fps or greater. This is very difficult or impossible to achieve with a 26" barrel.
Bullets of 175-185 grain can reach 1000 yds and stay super sonic.
Nat Lambeth

 

[Road_Clam]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

So phase II , I bought some Berger 175 Tatical OTM's per their barrel twist caculator recommendation and loaded up with Varget , and I am pleased to say I found a few good accuracy nodes. Problem was It was overcast and windy, so my Chrono would not read, and the wind was a bit of a problem. But still got some very good data. I loaded up :

42.2gr shot a 1.690" group @ 200 meters
42.6 shot a .862" group
43 shot a .586" group

I usually only shoot 3 shot groups but with the wind and the cold my fingers were getting cold and it wasn't fun so to produce a better average I shot 5 shot groups. I didn't see any signs of instability, the Bergers drilled a sharp hole through my targets. I'm plan on reloading up 43g and hopefully get some chrono #'s. I'm guessing I should be in the low 2600's. Those Bergers are beautifully crafted bullets but you pay all the money for them, not sure if my amateur shooting skill is worth the $53 a box price tag..

 

[Dgd6mm]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.


Amateur or professionally with all the other cost of a shooting sport, never worry about a few dollars. If you spend it you will have big dividends in the end.

 

[hogan]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

Presume the OP wants to get 1000yd consistency with a .308win... and accuracy.

With a Lazerroni .308 Patriot; no problem. With a .308win not really viable, but plenty will and likely have argued for it on this thread. .308 Norma Magnum, no problem; after-all it is a bascially a .30/338win mag a 1000yd ctg that is basically a bit more precision oriented than the .300win mag due to bit longer neck and bit shorter case body.

Want that 1000yds on a .308 case? Neck it down... .260rem with the High BC bullets 139 Scenar, 142Smk, Bergers 140s... Maybe even a Barnes XXX T BT. A-Max is another contender

Want a 1000yd Plus rifle? Chamber the 6.5/284, 6.5x55AI, 7mm SAUM or WSM. Maybe neck-up a .257wby mag to 6.5 or go .264win, 6.5rem

The .308win with 175SMKis bested 100moa by the 6.5/284 142SMK.
Might look for David Tubb's video The One Mile Shot. He ain't shooting a .308win or a .300win mag

Just want to punch steel or targets? 6mmXC or Dasher gives much lighter 107gr match bullet all it needs to get there. Less recoil than even a .260rem with 142gr. Talking 5 or 6 grains less powder and 25% lighter bullet. Less fatiguing to shoot, longer barrel life. Cheaper to load.

Want that rainbow trajectory and that +30moa canted scope base? If they aren't necessary, then they are handicaps. Really takes The Best scope base and rings To Be Sure. Near Mfg is about it. Gonna spend that $160 for the base and another $160 for rings? Got that Quality scope?

How much you gonna save shooting a .308 if the trajectory is like Tossing Pumpkins?

I think your savings come from the best trajectory dynamics because they work to your advantage in the wind and that is the Big Wildcard.

 

[Road_Clam]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

Presume the OP wants to get 1000yd consistency with a .308win... and accuracy.

With a Lazerroni .308 Patriot; no problem. With a .308win not really viable, but plenty will and likely have argued for it on this thread. .308 Norma Magnum, no problem; after-all it is a bascially a .30/338win mag a 1000yd ctg that is basically a bit more precision oriented than the .300win mag due to bit longer neck and bit shorter case body.

Want that 1000yds on a .308 case? Neck it down... .260rem with the High BC bullets 139 Scenar, 142Smk, Bergers 140s... Maybe even a Barnes XXX T BT. A-Max is another contender

Want a 1000yd Plus rifle? Chamber the 6.5/284, 6.5x55AI, 7mm SAUM or WSM. Maybe neck-up a .257wby mag to 6.5 or go .264win, 6.5rem

The .308win with 175SMKis bested 100moa by the 6.5/284 142SMK.
Might look for David Tubb's video The One Mile Shot. He ain't shooting a .308win or a .300win mag

Just want to punch steel or targets? 6mmXC or Dasher gives much lighter 107gr match bullet all it needs to get there. Less recoil than even a .260rem with 142gr. Talking 5 or 6 grains less powder and 25% lighter bullet. Less fatiguing to shoot, longer barrel life. Cheaper to load.

Want that rainbow trajectory and that +30moa canted scope base? If they aren't necessary, then they are handicaps. Really takes The Best scope base and rings To Be Sure. Near Mfg is about it. Gonna spend that $160 for the base and another $160 for rings? Got that Quality scope?

How much you gonna save shooting a .308 if the trajectory is like Tossing Pumpkins?

I think your savings come from the best trajectory dynamics because they work to your advantage in the wind and that is the Big Wildcard.

In my original post I said my whole 1000K load development will be a ONE day deal. I'm taking an instructional class that goes from 100 to 1000 yards. I'm not going to purchase all new gear just for a one day class. I am going to use the resources I have I have both .308 and .300WM both totally capable target rifles. My focus is finding a load that I have 100% confidenece shooting at 1K.