Need some feed back form long time reloaders

[williepete]

I have a 308 M1A with a tight chamber and have to resize on a small base die after each firing or the case's won't chamber. The brass sized with my small base die looks no different that the brass sized on a standard FL die. Certainly the the sized brass doesn't have a ring. What brand small base die are you using?

the chamber on my nato 556 chamber is loose that's why my brass is swelling so much
I just got the sb sizing die in today it is a Redding

 

[nettle]

I have a Redding small base die and it works very well. I was am a little aggravated with my M1A with it's small chamber and the requirement to small base resize because this does overwork the brass. It never occurred to me that an oversized chamber like yours was even a bigger problem. Thanks for sharing.

 

[williepete]

I have a Redding small base die and it works very well. I was am a little aggravated with my M1A with it's small chamber and the requirement to small base resize because this does overwork the brass. It never occurred to me that an oversized chamber like yours was even a bigger problem. Thanks for sharing.

It was a problem that i created by being concerned that my resized cases would not fit in the sheridan gauge
after so many firings but they would always chamber it's like K22 said why be concerned about sizing to fit in some gauge when it fits in the chamber.
with your M1 I would think that your tight chamber stretches the cases less when firing than a loose chamber
you just need a sb sizing die to get it back into spec I don't think you would be working the brass any harder
with the sb die thats just what it takes small chamber small die it all comes out in the wash

 

[nettle]

Sizing problems from two different directions sounds like to me. I bought my Sheridan case gauge after I had chambering problems with my reloaded brass. With a regular FL sizing die the brass failed the case gauge also failed the M1A's chamber. After small base resizing the cases passed both the Sheridan gauge and chambered 100%. When I first bought the M1A I also bought some (expensive) factory ammo to shoot until I could round up some reloading components and for the brass. Some of this factory ammo both failed to chamber and failed the case gauge. I had to case gauge and small base resize unfired factory ammo.

 

[jepp2]

I know things are getting dirty and I verify that by then riding the charging handle down and see how it feels after 40 rounds it starts to feel gritty

I don't know your lube and cleaning process. When I am shooting prairie dogs, I do a complete cleaning of the rifle each evening. I typically shoot 250 to 300 rounds per day. I don't see any difference in accuracy or function of my rifle given those conditions. Here is the accuracy at 100m of my rifle with a better barrel (Kreiger) on it. I don't shoot bench, just a guy trying to get the best out of the rifles I shoot.

 

[williepete]

Sizing problems from two different directions sounds like to me. I bought my Sheridan case gauge after I had chambering problems with my reloaded brass. With a regular FL sizing die the brass failed the case gauge also failed the M1A's chamber. After small base resizing the cases passed both the Sheridan gauge and chambered 100%. When I first bought the M1A I also bought some (expensive) factory ammo to shoot until I could round up some reloading components and for the brass. Some of this factory ammo both failed to chamber and failed the case gauge. I had to case gauge and small base resize unfired factory ammo.

That sounds right on the money the Sheridan gauge is bored to sammi min speck
sounds like your chamber is at min speck also so with your chamber sb die and sheridan gauge you are good to go
I got the gauge cause I thought it would be cool to be able to see the case and a loaded round in a chamber window and how it actually fits for the first 5 or 6 rounds my cases fit in the gauge I don't run hot loads so it took about 8 firings for the brass to fully fire form then they would no longer fit in the gauge that's what threw me off all the factory ammo would fit in the gauge and low count reloads I thought that 4 or 5 firings would completely fire form the cases but because of my mild loads it took longer I go with the milder loads cause the rifle shoots best at around 2700+ fps I have worked up loads for 5 different powders and they all shoot the best at that 2700fps range in my rifle.

 

[williepete]

I don't know your lube and cleaning process. When I am shooting prairie dogs, I do a complete cleaning of the rifle each evening. I typically shoot 250 to 300 rounds per day. I don't see any difference in accuracy or function of my rifle given those conditions. Here is the accuracy at 100m of my rifle with a better barrel (Kreiger) on it. I don't shoot bench, just a guy trying to get the best out of the rifles I shoot.

I clean after every firing you have a great barrel and those are some great groups
that is the kind of groups i am looking for at100 yards with what I have
I am trying to make the best out of what I have a 14.5 fn barrel I shoot benchrest
cause that is the best way I know of to make the gun as good as it can be
after around 40 rounds my groups start to open up I guess thats why the hard core benchrest guys
clean after every 5 rounds but those duds are making one hole every 5 rounds
Erick Cortina says that if his rifle only shoots 1/4 moa he takes the barrel off imagine that
If I could consistently shoot 1/4 moa every five rounds I would be a verry happy camper
I appreciate your input we are all trying for the same thing.

 

[Bill Norris]

I clean after every firing you have a great barrel and those are some great groups
that is the kind of groups i am looking for at100 yards with what I have
I am trying to make the best out of what I have a 14.5 fn barrel I shoot benchrest
cause that is the best way I know of to make the gun as good as it can be
after around 40 rounds my groups start to open up I guess thats why the hard core benchrest guys
clean after every 5 rounds but those duds are making one hole every 5 rounds
Erick Cortina says that if his rifle only shoots 1/4 moa he takes the barrel off imagine that
If I could consistently shoot 1/4 moa every five rounds I would be a verry happy camper
I appreciate your input we are all trying for the same thing.

Hey Bro, I believe Erik said if his rifle shoots 1/2 MOA he removes the barrel. He strives for 1/4 MOA or better consistently.

 

[Ray123]

Yep old, and 50 yrs reloading...for what it's worth...probably not much.
.50BMG to 17 Remington.
Okay I only load 223,/ 556 for AR auto loaders ...and don't use SB dies except that's what was available in the store as the time in 223 and 6 mm ARC ...so I have 2 sets of small base dies...I have a bunch of 308 dies none are small base, but feed bolts and autos with the same ammo. A small base die only sizes one half of one thousanth smaller anyway.
If the cartridge fits the chamber it doesn't have to fit the gauge, especially if its to minimum specs...your chamber is larger than minimum...no big deal...and small base will only make the problem worse as far as brass longevity, by oversizing it.
The picture of shaving brass off the side of the case tbe SM base probably has too sharp of radius at the base of the die shaving brass instead of resizing it.
I make forming dies and sometimes leave a sharp edge for that very purpose to shave metal...but add a entry champher and a polished radius it stops that from happening.
I chamber all the bolt guns and use the go gauge to check any gauge provided by a typical "gauge maker" to see if his gauge is made correctly...they are off a little. 001" is not uncommon.
A rifle is chambered with precision ground reamers & gauges and checked for accuracy with precision ground chamber gauges between the go gauge, and no go gauges...not a minimum or other standard set by "gauge manufacturer".
If your brass fits your gun with the orginial setup...falls in and out of your chamber readily...not much need to worry about a gauge..if they still fit the chamber easily through out the 11 times you cycle the resize, reload, and shoot....You ain't shootin gauges. It's possible the brass head is work hardening and spring back greater with dies that don't quite get to the bottom of the case head cause the champher and radius are too big/long even with shell holder contact... I reworked, or alter dies in a lathe and carbide tools. So I cut special dies and shell holders down, past the extractor groove...or store bought dies leave a small head area too large in diameter...like when making 308 win brass into smaller head 35 Remington brass.

 

[williepete]

Hey Bro, I believe Erik said if his rifle shoots 1/2 MOA he removes the barrel. He strives for 1/4 MOA or better consistently.

I stand corrected you are right

 

[williepete]

Yep old, and 50 yrs reloading...for what it's worth...probably not much.
.50BMG to 17 Remington.
Okay I only load 223,/ 556 for AR auto loaders ...and don't use SB dies except that's what was available in the store as the time in 223 and 6 mm ARC ...so I have 2 sets of small base dies...I have a bunch of 308 dies none are small base, but feed bolts and autos with the same ammo. A small base die only sizes one half of one thousanth smaller anyway.
If the cartridge fits the chamber it doesn't have to fit the gauge, especially if its to minimum specs...your chamber is larger than minimum...no big deal...and small base will only make the problem worse as far as brass longevity, by oversizing it.
The picture of shaving brass off the side of the case tbe SM base probably has too sharp of radius at the base of the die shaving brass instead of resizing it.
I make forming dies and sometimes leave a sharp edge for that very purpose to shave metal...but add a entry champher and a polished radius it stops that from happening.
I chamber all the bolt guns and use the go gauge to check any gauge provided by a typical "gauge maker" to see if his gauge is made correctly...they are off a little. 001" is not uncommon.
A rifle is chambered with precision ground reamers & gauges and checked for accuracy with precision ground chamber gauges between the go gauge, and no go gauges...not a minimum or other standard set by "gauge manufacturer".
If your brass fits your gun with the orginial setup...falls in and out of your chamber readily...not much need to worry about a gauge..if they still fit the chamber easily through out the 11 times you cycle the resize, reload, and shoot....You ain't shootin gauges. It's possible the brass head is work hardening and spring back greater with dies that don't quite get to the bottom of the case head cause the champher and radius are too big/long even with shell holder contact... I reworked, or alter dies in a lathe and carbide tools. So I cut special dies and shell holders down, past the extractor groove...or store bought dies leave a small head area too large in diameter...like when making 308 win brass into smaller head 35 Remington brass.

Thank you, your 50 years of reloading is worth a lot,
Looking at my brass I don't think my dies are sizing all the way down to the base there is always a shinny spot just before the extractor grove.

 

[williepete]

I don't know your lube and cleaning process. When I am shooting prairie dogs, I do a complete cleaning of the rifle each evening. I typically shoot 250 to 300 rounds per day. I don't see any difference in accuracy or function of my rifle given those conditions. Here is the accuracy at 100m of my rifle with a better barrel (Kreiger) on it. I don't shoot bench, just a guy trying to get the best out of the rifles I shoot.

Looking at your targets and reading the info if you don't mind what length and twist rate is your Kreiger

 

[jepp2]

what length and twist rate is your Kreiger

12T 26"

 

[mac86951]

I missed it, what weight bullet is the OP shooting at 2700fps? A 14.5" barrel, sounds like something 50ish grn; but if it's 77gr that seems like a hot load.

-Mac

 

[williepete]

I missed it, what weight bullet is the OP shooting at 2700fps? A 14.5" barrel, sounds like something 50ish grn; but if it's 77gr that seems like a hot load.

-Mac

Right now i am shooting a 62 gn. getting ready to try a 69 gn. will have to do another ladder test

 

[JSH]

My AR had some what similar issues, LC brass all same year. I went to small base dies with the same thing on a lot of my cases. I junked all that brass. As mentioned a lot of spring back and work hardening at the web, around 10 loadings they owed me nothing anyway.
I now use the SB dies every time for my AR. I can see after sizing where it just touches and seems to be keeping that size in check.

Whom ever shot the above groups, those are some out standing groups from an AR. Wish I could get mine to stay at 1/2-3/4 MOA day in and day out.

 

[williepete]

My AR had some what similar issues, LC brass all same year. I went to small base dies with the same thing on a lot of my cases. I junked all that brass. As mentioned a lot of spring back and work hardening at the web, around 10 loadings they owed me nothing anyway.
I now use the SB dies every time for my AR. I can see after sizing where it just touches and seems to be keeping that size in check.

Whom ever shot the above groups, those are some out standing groups from an AR. Wish I could get mine to stay at 1/2-3/4 MOA day in and day out.

Thats jepp2 with those groups he defiantly has it going on sounds like he has a awesome set up
and has his process locked down
I can shoot 1/2 moa with my set up but not contently I am working on that every day.

 

[divingin]

downside is after about 50 rounds the chambering gets a little gritty if you ride the charging handle down

Why would you do that? It's designed to use the spring to drive the bolt forward - why stop it from doing so and expect it to work correctly?

Personally, I'd lose the chamber gauge. I think it's confusing you - making it so you're chasing 2 different specs. The only one that matters is if the loaded ammo fits your rifle, so use your rifle's chamber to see if it is "in-spec".

Break the upper from the lower, and drop the round in the back of the barrel. It should slide in and stop with a bit of a thunk, and slide back out without having to pry or push it loose (or at least not much.)

 

[rwj]

Looking at my brass I don't think my dies are sizing all the way down to the base there is always a shinny spot just before the extractor grove.

Body sizing can’t extend much lower than that “shinny” spot because the case head is solid brass not far below that point. Reloading presses/dies are not made to withstand the force required to deform solid sections.

 

[williepete]

Body sizing can’t extend much lower than that “shinny” spot because the case head is solid brass not far below that point. Reloading presses/dies are not made to withstand the force required to deform solid sections.

Just out of curiosity I put a fired resized case in a spare barrel and took a 90 degree scribe and went around the mouth of the chamber around the brass and made a scribe mark and that part of the brass is not even in
the chamber any way.