Need Help Planning A Build

[Dimner]

Hi guys, I have written and re-written this thread half a dozen times over the past 2 months, but never hit submit. Let's see if I go through with it this time.

I'm trying to plan my first custom build. I'm having a very hard time coming up with a plan that I feel confident in. What I mainly want to use this for would be medium range prone. Out to 500-600 yards. My main goal will be to use this build to help learn how wind impacts my shooting and be able to tell when to take the shot to make small groups. As well as tell where to aim my shot to hit the X ring. Two different skills, but I plan to work on both. I'll initially work on the learning needed for small groups. I'll be using multiple wind flags and working towards identifying when the wind is consistent shot to shot and how to anticipate wind changes. Initial shooting at 300, then moving to 500,

I plan on shooting from a bench 20% of the time and prone the remaining 80%. Using a front bag rest or a bipod when prone. However, I'm not interested in a F-class type fancy bipod. A folding bipod is what I will end up with. I do not plan to compete in anything other than local fun shoots both prone and possibly at a bench.

I plan to base my build on a custom action with a replaceable bolthead design. Probably the Kauger VPR SST Short Action. I talked to them on the phone, they have a recommendation for what trigger to use, I forget which one, but I will go with that. I need to find the notes I took while I spoke with them.

Cartridge
I guess, my first question is, what cartridge should I be looking at? I would like something that will perform well at 500 but also has the case capacity similar to the BR or Grendel cartridge. Since I intent to learn wind and working on my prone shooting, I do not need something that will shoot at .25MOA if that means more expensive bullets and less barrel life. I simply cannot shoot 0.25MOA at this time. I do not ever expect to shoot this cartridge further than 600. 80% of the time I will be shooting at 300 yards.

My initial preferences would be a cartridge that has:

• brass that is easy/reasonable to source
• well proven no turn reamer design
• case capacity similar to the BR cartridge family. Meaning, no creedmoor cartridges
• bullets that are reasonably easy to find and not at a premium price. Bulk purchase preferred.
• must be able to use the 15k Rem 7 1/2 BR small rifle primers I have on hand.
• hopefully a cartridge that works well with a tuner

I'm okay with using mid quality brass and bullets up to the point that I hit a wall in accuracy/precision. That is, if I'm able to hit the wall. I'd rather not wear out premium brass when I cannot utilize the accuracy potential. Same with the bullets, I don't need to send 500 custom or super high priced bullets down range when I'm only able to hit MOA with wind.

With all of that, should I look at anything other than the good ol 223/556? 6mm Arc or 6mm Grendel seem like an interesting step up from 556. I can find the Grendel brass pretty easy for a reasonable price. I like the idea of 6mm BR, but I only can find the most premium brass at the highest price, that is when it is even available. I don't think I will be able to notice the difference between 6mm Grendel and 6BR for a long time.

Later I will have questions on barrel profile, stock profiles, and tuners. However, I figure starting with the cartridge is good for now.

I really appreciate the help you guys always provide.

 

[Ranger188]

I'd go with a 6br. You can find Lapua brass right now and it will last the life of the barrel.
Anyone one of the "quality" brass will be better in the long run.
You can find the Alpha and Peterson brass once in awhile now also.
You can go with Hornady 105g eld-m's or just the Hornady hpbt, both good enough bullets
for what you want and cheap. The Sierra 95g MK's work also very well at 300-600 yds.
If your not worried about tiny groups, I wouldn't spend the money on a tuner right now.
Since your going prone or sometimes on a bench, a chassis would work fine with a quality
bipod and rear bag.
MDT Oryx or KRG Bravo chassis would be fine.

 

[Just Say Moe]

I'd go 6BR. 6mm ARC looks interesting as it uses 30ish grains of powder per round like the BR. There is just too much info and experience with the 6BR - no sense reinventing the wheel.

 

[Dimner]

With 6BR, wont the primer pockets loosen up after 10-12 reloads? Or is that just something that happens when loads are at or near max pressure? (which I do not plan to do)

 

[Riesel]

6 or 6.5 Creedmoor

 

[30378]

6x47 Lapua

 

[Bottom Fodder]

6br is a proven winner in my book, should nicely fill your needs

 

[sneakboxer]

I'll be the boring cheap guy and say 223 with 69-80gr bullets. Cheaper components, no recoil, long life and available. That little bullet will also let you know if you miss a wind call a bit quicker too.

 

[RegionRat]

223 would be my advice. Shooting a 1:8 to 1:7 twist Heavy Palma or Heavy Varmint barrel section so it tolerates longer strings.

Using a factory varmint rig or F-T/R rig will also let you save enough time and money on the learning curve to know better when it comes time. For your goals, you may never need to upgrade.

The 6 BR is another good choice, does the same things with a better ballistic performance, but will also increase the budget significantly and be more difficult to source components. It is The Easy Button for 300/600 loading performance.

At 300 yards, the 223 can compete well even in bad winds... when the shooter knows how to drive.

The 223 will shoot Hornady 88, (as well as the SMK 80 and the Berger 80.5), with easier availability. While a 223 will typically be out-performed in a Mid Range F-Class match by bigger cartridges, the value is in the learning and bang for the buck.

You can burn up a lot more ammo and barrels while hitting your 300/600 yard goals, and when you can hold better than 97% you will always be able to upgrade to a higher but more expensive cartridge while having the background from 223.

Without a doubt, the 6BR (6 Dasher, 6 BRA, etc.) and 6.5x47 would beat a 223 at 600 yards on a switchy day, but you would spend a significant amount more effort to feed those and in these times do not underestimate the difficulty of 6.5x47 and 6 BR brass when compared to decent 223.

If budget and time is no issue, then the 6 BR and 6.5 cartridges are superior ballistically. I would take a 6 Dasher or 6 BRA for 300/600 and you won't struggle getting below 0.5 MOA from a decent match barrel.

With a 223 using an 80 - 88 grain bullet and Varget, you will get more than enough performance to be well under 1 MOA at 600 and with discipline be inside 0.5 MOA for 20 shots plus sighters.

With the availability of 223 ammo, you can even learn a lot with cheap bulk ammo while you climb the learning curve, and then use the brass to load match ammo later.

Just food for thought based on the concepts of adequate ballistics, ready availability, lower cost per shot that leads to more shots, etc.. YMMV

Good Luck and in for the range reports!

 

[NZ_Fclass]

With 6BR, wont the primer pockets loosen up after 10-12 reloads? Or is that just something that happens when loads are at or near max pressure? (which I do not plan to do)

No. If you use good brass - I use Norma and Lapua only and run sensible pressures in a quality action. I have had many more than 12 - but I do keep a separate batch for competition, with less firings. For 600 yd shooting you need no more than a BR - and stick to single base powders ie Varget.

 

[leakeyjohn]

With 6BR, wont the primer pockets loosen up after 10-12 reloads? Or is that just something that happens when loads are at or near max pressure? (which I do not plan to do)

I have two prolimer pockets are tight afyer shooting alot for 3 years, not maximum loads more in 85% area what the rifle shoots well out to 1k

 

[jackieschmidt]

I would go with a 6BRA with a 272 no neck turn reamer.
I would also build it on a 1-12 twist barrel to shoot the Barts 80 grn BT for your shorter range shooting, and later invest in a 1-8 barrel to shoot the longer heavier bullets at 500/600 yards.

Use the same .103 freebore reamer for both barrels. Have your gunsmith chamber each barrel to where all you can use the same brass in both barrels.

I have a 6BRA set up exactly like this now. It’s like having two rifles for the price of an extra barrel.

 

[Evan]

Another vote for 223 and a 1:7, set up for either the 80s or the 90s. Unfortunately you can’t have both with optimal results so I would choose based on what is more attractive to you: 80s are available and a little cheaper. 90s are better in the wind, less immediately available, and a tiny bit more expensive. If you build a 223 that is suitable for use in FTR, it creates a path to competition if you get the itch, or it opens a whole market of buyers that otherwise won’t be interested if you want or need to sell it.

This is just my unsolicited opinion but swap-able bolt heads would be low on my list of needs in a custom receiver. It seems like a boon, but most come with compromised ignition systems (as in not ideal for the best accuracy possible, not as in they don’t work or will break). I would use a great gunsmith and follow their advice on what to get and build. I use Jim Borden, but there are many really good ones out there.

 

[Evan]

Oh and another point: You think you can’t shoot well enough to tell the difference, but I’d bet money that if I sat you down behind my gun with it all tuned up, you would shoot the smallest groups of your life. You would be amazed how much of a difference a good system makes.

Spending $4k on a rifle and then buying cheap brass is pennywise and pound foolish if you’re really wanting to work on your skills and not worry about the rifle. Brass is amortized across the many reloads you will get out of it. With proper sizing techniques and safe pressures, $1 brass will last more than 20 reloads and become the cheapest component you use; even less expensive than primers.

 

[Forum Boss]

If you get a 6BR or 6BRA just get the 1:8 twist barrel. My 8-twist barrel shoots the lighter 80-90 grain bullets just fine — spectacularly In fact with 3 shots in the high ones at 100 in calm conditions. But the same barrel can run 103-107 grainers with great success. For club matches, no need for two barrels.

 

[R.Morehouse]

I will suggest going with a 6mm and starting with a long barrel with a stock that you adjust the weight on for balance. If you start with a 30" barrel you can have it set back a few times. With the cost of everything going up, that may appeal to your wallet. There is also quality brass being made for the 6 Dasher.....

Regards
Rick

 

[CharlieNC]

Both 6BR and 223 are good options. You can always find brass for a 223 and decent bullet options, and a 7 twist will shoot 80gr great at 300yd and scale up to 90vld for less wind effects at 500yd if desired. In our local 300yd fclass the 223 rivals the BR with cleans and x count, but becomes disadvantaged at longer distances. Choices!!!

 

[AlNyhus]

A 6BR 'no turn' (.272-.274) is the Easy Button on a build like this. Lapua cases last forever. For a barrel, an 8 twist has become the defacto 'universal' twist....for better or worse. With shorter bullets, you'll hear tales of them shooting just as well but the facts are different. Whether that difference is significant to your expectations...only you can answer that.

Have the barrel fitted with the normal shoulder. With an action like you're going to use, there's no reason for a one-size-fits-all prefit. A shouldered barrel on a nice custom action is the ultimate 'prefit'.

Properly bedded in a quality stock, it will be a very nice build. Enjoy!!

 

[K22]

With 6BR, wont the primer pockets loosen up after 10-12 reloads? Or is that just something that happens when loads are at or near max pressure? (which I do not plan to do)

Veron Speer did a lot of research on this back in the day and found a correlation between excessive case head expansion due to excessive pressure that caused primer pocket loosing. I can't remember his case head expansion numbers, but I think they were in the range of .0003 and .0005".

I have never had loose primer pockets even after 15 to 18 reloads but I never load to maximum pressure.

 

[boltfluter]

Another vote for the 6BR. No way is a .223 gonna hang with a 6BR at 600 yrds! Flame suit on! Lol!
Paul