Need Help Planning A Build

[Forum Boss]

Here is a story about a 6mmBR Tubegun -- this is something you can shoot prone and from the bench (with front and rear bagriders).

Here are 100-yard groups with Lapua 90gr factory ammo in an 8-twist Broughton barrel shot by my friend Joe, a top-tier rimfire benchrest shooter. Honestly, unless I was shooting inside 200 yards 70+ % of the time, I'd get an 8 twist if you're just shooting local club matches. My 8 twist PacNor also worked great with the 80gr Bergers.

Story: https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2023/12/sunday-gunday-joes-ultra-accurate-6mmbr-eliseo-tubegun/

 

[LVLAaron]

My main goal will be to use this build to help learn how wind impacts my shooting and be able to tell when to take the shot to make small groups.

223.

 

[Dimner]

Every time I think I have my decision made, I re-read all of your answers and I end up changing my mind!

Everyone makes a very good reason for either the 223 or the 6BR.

The problem I'm having with the 6BR is that 500-700 bullets and 300 pieces of brass cost $600!!! That's a real sour pill to swallow when I know at least 3-400 of those bullets will be shot very poorly.

So then I think about doing the 223. Because I think I'm going to be 100/300/600yds at 20%/73%/7%. So do I really need that 6BR oomph for 7% of the time? It might even be less. The club I plan to join is expanding to 500. They would like to expand further, but there is no time table set for that.

I wish the deal of the month would show up in the classified and make this decision for me

 

[LVLAaron]

You'd be surprised how well a 223 can run. Heavy bullets are competitive with 6's.

Run the numbers.

 

[Dimner]

You'd be surprised how well a 223 can run. Heavy bullets are competitive with 6's.

Run the numbers.

Would the 223 work better with Rem 7 1/2 BR Primers? I never see anyone mention these primers in their loads. I have 15k of them. So either I have to use them for this build, or figure out how to alchemy them into something else.

 

[LVLAaron]

They'll work great. They're commonly recommended for AR15 loads.

 

[Evan]

Every time I think I have my decision made, I re-read all of your answers and I end up changing my mind!

Everyone makes a very good reason for either the 223 or the 6BR.

The problem I'm having with the 6BR is that 500-700 bullets and 300 pieces of brass cost $600!!! That's a real sour pill to swallow when I know at least 3-400 of those bullets will be shot very poorly.

So then I think about doing the 223. Because I think I'm going to be 100/300/600yds at 20%/73%/7%. So do I really need that 6BR oomph for 7% of the time? It might even be less. The club I plan to join is expanding to 500. They would like to expand further, but there is no time table set for that.

I wish the deal of the month would show up in the classified and make this decision for me

Don’t waste time with really cheap bullets like bulk FMJ. You’ll get regular unexplainable shots that make no sense. Buy at least some kind of match bullet so you can be confident the bullet did what you told it to. Doesn’t need to be a $0.50 Berger, I’ve had great results with Hornady, Sierra, Nosler.

Have you seen @urbanrifleman store? He has stuff that would fit your budget concerns nicely.

 

[Evan]

@Dimner your use case just screams 223 shooting a Hornady 80 ELD to me. A 1:7 barrel chambered with an ISSF reamer. Cheap, reliable results out to 500yds that isn’t much of a disadvantage in any category and components are readily available everywhere pretty much all the time. When you feel better about your skills, step up to a Berger 90 VLD and you’ll see a whole different level of wind resistance that is capable out to 1000yds.

 

[JFrank]

Every time I think I have my decision made, I re-read all of your answers and I end up changing my mind!

Everyone makes a very good reason for either the 223 or the 6BR.

The problem I'm having with the 6BR is that 500-700 bullets and 300 pieces of brass cost $600!!! That's a real sour pill to swallow when I know at least 3-400 of those bullets will be shot very poorly.
1- (There is absolutely no reason for half your bullets to be shot poorly with a 6 br, we have far too much support on the forum to allow this to happen)

So then I think about doing the 223. Because I think I'm going to be 100/300/600yds at 20%/73%/7%. So do I really need that 6BR
2- ( yes, without a doubt)
oomph for 7% of the time? It might even be less. The club I plan to join is expanding to 500. They would like to expand further, but there is no time table set for that.

I wish the deal of the month would show up in the classified and make this decision for me

3- ( there have been many opportunities in the classified )

 

[LitLBoy]

.223 AI 7 twist barrel and 85 to 90 gr. bullets. Brass, bullets, easy to source and reasonable price. This will shoot to 1K. if you want. You did say 80% at 300 yards. Have a friend (Seven Fingers) shoots a .223 PISTOL and kicks my 6 and 6.5 rifles to the curb all day long.

 

[Liven The Dream]

I going 6Dasher, 6BRA or 6BR 1-7.5 Twist 17 Taper at 30” Finish. Berger 105 HB .
Stock and Action your choice.
No Savage if Possible!

 

[Clancy]

@Dimner why would you need 300 pieces of brass? That’s enough to shoot out at least 3 barrels.

6BR is the clear choice here, by the way.

 

[Dimner]

@Dimner why would you need 300 pieces of brass? That’s enough to shoot out at least 3 barrels.

6BR is the clear choice here, by the way.

I don't think the # of brass has much to do with barrel life in my situation. It's more about time management.

My thought was:
100 rounds ready to shoot on range day - Brass Batch A
100 rounds being loaded for the next range day - Brass Batch B
100 pieces of brass as backup. - Brass Batch C

I am not retired and have school age children. So I need to keep a flexible schedule. I can start loading the brass batch B even if I have not been to the range yet.

I probably would skip the backup brass if 6BR brass was easy to find.

 

[Clancy]

I don't think the # of brass has much to do with barrel life in my situation. It's more about time management.

My thought was:
100 rounds ready to shoot on range day - Brass Batch A
100 rounds being loaded for the next range day - Brass Batch B
100 pieces of brass as backup. - Brass Batch C

I am not retired and have school age children. So I need to keep a flexible schedule. I can start loading the brass batch B even if I have not been to the range yet.

I probably would skip the backup brass if 6BR brass was easy to find.

I’d just get 100 or 150, split it into 2 or 3 batches.

But…. You’ll learn way more shooting 15-25 rounds a day than you will shooting 50-100. I’ve been down both roads.

Anyway, 6BR- Lapua or Peterson. Any quality 105 class bullet will work well.

You’ve commented several times that you didn’t “need” this or that quality item. If you want to get better, you do need them. YOU need to be the only variable.

I’m not saying wait 5 years on a Lederer barrel or a year or two on Vapor Trails…. But if you really want to get better you need to be shooting premium brass (Lapua or Peterson), a premium bullet (berger or Sierra), a big 3 barrel, quality optic (Nightforce, Razor/Golden Eagle, March, etc.) and need to use a reputable smith.

 

[1lessdog]

I would go with the 6 BRX. Get a few 100 fps than a 6 BR.

 

[Dimner]

I’d just get 100 or 150, split it into 2 or 3 batches.

But…. You’ll learn way more shooting 15-25 rounds a day than you will shooting 50-100. I’ve been down both roads.

Anyway, 6BR- Lapua or Peterson. Any quality 105 class bullet will work well.

You’ve commented several times that you didn’t “need” this or that quality item. If you want to get better, you do need them. YOU need to be the only variable.

I’m not saying wait 5 years on a Lederer barrel or a year or two on Vapor Trails…. But if you really want to get better you need to be shooting premium brass (Lapua or Peterson), a premium bullet (berger or Sierra), a big 3 barrel, quality optic (Nightforce, Razor/Golden Eagle, March, etc.) and need to use a reputable smith.

Good insight. I will get 200 cases and break them down into similar groups, but with 100 on back up and 50 in rotation per batch.

 

[Dimner]

Okay, so I have to really thank everyone for the help, the advice, and the insight in to how they approach their shooting. It's been very educational and has helped me immensely. I have had time to mull it over and I'm going pick..... wait... I just digested all this info and I realize I should really include the 30BR in my consideration set.

@newbieshooter, this is all your fault If I'm not worried about brass sourcing anymore... I should really consider the 30BR.

First, I have

• 5 lbs of H4198
• 12 lbs of Rx7
• 16 lbs of Shooters World Buffalo Rifle.\
  • My experience with Buffalo is it has a similar burn to H4198, but GRT and quickload always thinks it's similar to IMR 4227.

Second, ever since I have learned about the 30BR I have wanted to create a match grade cast bullet rifle. I love bullet casting.

Third, I love 30 cals.

How much more recoil is a 30BR over the 6BR? Not talking about free recoil. Looking for the comparison in the prone position with let's say a Light Varmint ~6.5lbs barrel contour? I am running the numbers in an online recoil calculator, and it's only showing about 0.5lb difference at most.

Is the hardest part about the 30BR finding the bullets? There are probably other points about the 30BR I am not considering.

edit to add: I do not plan for this to be a cast bullet build.

 

[AlNyhus]

There are probably other points about the 30BR I am not considering.

Do you have tooling and ability to make really good cases? Also, the financials of shooting BR level .30 cal bullets are quite a bit steeper than the 6's.

The upside of course is barrel life.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Dimner]

Do you have tooling and ability to make really good cases? Also, the financials of shooting BR level .30 cal bullets are quite a bit steeper than the 6's.

The upside of course is barrel life.

Good shootin' -Al

Very good points. I don't have the equipment to maintain the 30BR necks and donuts. But I do have a expander mandrel die from 21st century, so to form the brass I think all I would need is their 6mm to 308 mandrel. I do not plan to shoot at competitions above the club level, so I think well sorted speer 125 gr bullets would work well for me. If I ever did decide to compete, I would jump in without any worry to projectile cost.

However, after burrowing in this rabbit hole for the last 4.5 hours. I am going to go with the 6BR. It will be more versatile distance wise. I'll just be doing a 30BR as my 2nd project about 6-8 months down the line

 

[Bill Norris]

Very good points. I don't have the equipment to maintain the 30BR necks and donuts. But I do have a expander mandrel die from 21st century, so to form the brass I think all I would need is their 6mm to 308 mandrel. I do not plan to shoot at competitions above the club level, so I think well sorted speer 125 gr bullets would work well for me. If I ever did decide to compete, I would jump in without any worry to projectile cost.

However, after burrowing in this rabbit hole for the last 4.5 hours. I am going to go with the 6BR. It will be more versatile distance wise. I'll just be doing a 30BR as my 2nd project about 6-8 months down the line

You will not be dissatisfied with the 30BR. Recoil is not bad at all. I have a ODCR Hunter custom Rem M-7 with # 4 Taper 23 inch barrel and recoil is very mild. Good custom 30 cal. light-weight bullets are made by several members here on the forum and there are some fairly decent factory bullets out there as well. My rifle will consistently group @ 1/4 inch at 100 yds. with the Nosler 125 gr. B Ts or A Bs.