Need a little help. Been reloading for a while and Im struggling!

[Steve Ladino]

Had a 6mm creed built last year. Rifle is a Kelbly atlas tac short action, bartlein 27” medium Palma, manners t5, tt diamond. I put a load together, 42.8grs of h-4350 at 3137fps from 120 rds to 260 rds down the bbl. shot like a house on fire. Towards the end of the 260rds my velocity and pressure spiked a bit, accuracy went way down hill!! Cold weather hit and it sat for the winter.

fast forward till this past Saturday. All brass is fl sized, bumped .002. I cleaned the rifle like crazy. Loaded up a few at 42 for Fowler’s. Then did a later test at 300 yards. Results from Saturday showed 42-42.6 showed a node with an Es of 7 and a velocity of 3172. Loaded up a few at 42.3 and back out Sunday to start testing.

average velocity sunday was 3203 with an average sd of 4.5 but groups were terrible. Basically 1 moa. Confused by the results I figured I must of made a mistake and picked 1 round from each group and set it aside and pulled it at home to double check, and 42.3 grs.

Re loaded and did another ladder. Velocities were different by a good amount again. Nodes weren’t visible,

Shut off my Lyman scale (just to throw the main charge then trickle onto gempro for accuracy) figuring maybe the Lyman is throwing off the gempro.

loaded up 2 more ladders tonight and once again results were different again!! Node isn’t nearly as visible but might have something. I have no idea what’s going on or how to proceed. I hate how much the gempro drifts and how the Lyman isn’t all that accurate. I finally just ordered the a&d fx-120i v3 combo for piece of mind but won’t be here for 4-6 weeks.

how do I proceed and what should I be looking at.

That 6mm Creed is quite a hot rod.....

 

[Matt_3479]

Alright fellas here it is. Cleaned out the carbon last night, and wouldn’t you know it bore scope showed up this morning. Took a peak and still the slightest ring so removed it and and loaded up a few foulers and then two ladders to shoot at 400 yards.

Ladder one.



Ladder 2



The wind was insane today, really should of waited but looks like it was the carbon. Even in 52km/h 90* winds with 67km/h gusts it still shot under .5moa vertical and first one was about .75moa horizontal and second one I took more time reading the wind and got it back to under .5 moa horizontal as well.

ladders were as read;

Ladder number 1 Ladder number 2

41.6. 3131. 3131
41.8. 3151. 3142
42. 3164. 3158
42.2. 3173. 3167
42.4. 3169. 3161
42.6. 3185. 3182
42.8. 3190. 3205

 

[gman47564]

you have a good node in that 42 grain range but I must warn ya your barrel wont last long running in the 3160's... don't ask me how I know.. lol

 

[Matt_3479]

Well I don’t know what’s going on! My scale must be off!!

today I loaded up 42.2grs which was showing in the last 2 ladders around the 3160ish range. I loaded .005, .020 and .040 off lands to test seating depth to fine tune. Rifle shot well, pulled one to open the group on the first .005. But the rest of the groups were all 1/2 moa or less with good es and good sd, but velocities averaged around 3102 today! 60 FPS change from one day to the next?

ive ruled out my magnetospeed as I had both the magneto and Labrador our today!

 

[mike a]

Well I don’t know what’s going on! My scale must be off!!

today I loaded up 42.2grs which was showing in the last 2 ladders around the 3160ish range. I loaded .005, .020 and .040 off lands to test seating depth to fine tune. Rifle shot well, pulled one to open the group on the first .005. But the rest of the groups were all 1/2 moa or less with good es and good sd, but velocities averaged around 3102 today! 60 FPS change from one day to the next?

ive ruled out my magnetospeed as I had both the magneto and Labrador our today!

Matt, I've seen some perty crazy velocity swings. How much did the atmosphere change form day to day? Barrel condition, clean / fouled? Equipment temperature, did it sit in the car with the heat on? How long before you fired it?, did it have time to climatize? All of it, gun, ammo, chrono gear. Position Chrono gear in exactly the same spot. Then the loads, only shoot half of your loads and then shoot the other half the next day. Food for thought, just saying I've seen velocity changes that I can't explain. If your getting the groups you like than just have fun and don't let the Chrono twist your brain. Cheers Mike

 

[Matt_3479]

Matt, I've seen some perty crazy velocity swings. How much did the atmosphere change form day to day? Barrel condition, clean / fouled? Equipment temperature, did it sit in the car with the heat on? How long before you fired it?, did it have time to climatize? All of it, gun, ammo, chrono gear. Position Chrono gear in exactly the same spot. Then the loads, only shoot half of your loads and then shoot the other half the next day. Food for thought, just saying I've seen velocity changes that I can't explain. If your getting the groups you like than just have fun and don't let the Chrono twist your brain. Cheers Mike

day to day the only major difference was wind. Direction and speed changed today. Other then that it was very similar, slight over cast, temps where within a few degrees (0 this morning, and 4 yesterday) gun and ammo both sat for 20 mins before firing and chronograph is in exactly the same spot, due to muzzle brake it’s position right up against it both times.

its the inconsistency that is bothering me. Like the rifle is starting to produce like I know it can. Little more fine tuning but I’d like to know that when I got out my drops will be closer together. Not 60fps difference

 

[Dusty Stevens]

When the target talks everybody listens. Ive never seen anybody win a match with a chronograph

 

[vahena]

When the target talks everybody listens. Ive never seen anybody win a match with a chronograph

I for one totally agree Dusty.

 

[Bc'z]

When the target talks everybody listens. Ive never seen anybody win a match with a chronograph

The target above is saying 41.7.

 

[bozo699]

When the target talks everybody listens. Ive never seen anybody win a match with a chronograph

Dusty,
I love your posts!... but..... with that thinking neither does precise tooling nor discussing all the things we do on this great forum! When I started competing in 2011 we saw a lot of 10 shot 8” groups @ 1000 yd and a 5” was awesome!... they have cut that number in half and then some!.... Brass hasn’t changed?... powder hasn’t changed?....bullets and primers haven’t changed and we haven’t bred super shooters in the last decade so what would you account for these unbelievable small groups your seeing today?...... I say it’s anal ocd people with precise tools ..... including chronographs!.... discussions shared by great shooters and lots of time at the range!.... it takes all of it buddy
Wayne

 

[Pwhite11798]

Glad to see you got it figured out Matt.

Philip

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dusty,
I love your posts!... but..... with that thinking neither does precise tooling nor discussing all the things we do on this great forum! When I started competing in 2011 we saw a lot of 10 shot 8” groups @ 1000 yd and a 5” was awesome!... they have cut that number in half and then some!.... Brass hasn’t changed?... powder hasn’t changed?....bullets and primers haven’t changed and we haven’t bred super shooters in the last decade so what would you account for these unbelievable small groups your seeing today?...... I say it’s anal ocd people with precise tools ..... including chronographs!.... discussions shared by great shooters and lots of time at the range!.... it takes all of it buddy
Wayne

Like the top shooters say- barrels and bullets! Also, what cartridge were you shooting in 2011 and which one now? How bout the rests and how fast are the actions now? I see personal wind flags out now where it was rare back then. Cleaning regimens? Scopes? Lots of advancements along with the deletion of skyscreens (which is way way down on the list)

 

[bozo699]

Like the top shooters say- barrels and bullets! Also, what cartridge were you shooting in 2011 and which one now? How bout the rests and how fast are the actions now? I see personal wind flags out now where it was rare back then. Cleaning regimens? Scopes? Lots of advancements along with the deletion of skyscreens (which is way way down on the list)

Dusty,
My first rifle was a stock Savage 6.5-284 and I can’t remember if it was the Benchrest or fclass and was shooting 140 vlds I was able to shoot moa with it. I rebarreled it to 6*284 and have used the same bullets every since in all my brx and dashers “105 vlds”
I started off with a Caldwell and now have a Fulgham , same flags scopes and cleaning equipment and the same 35p skyscreens
Wayne