Need .308 Win 1,000 yd load assistance

[Skeeter]

Built a pair of guns over the past couple months to bang steel out to a grand. Looking for some help with load data as the handloads I have worked up shoot really good out to 800 yards then fall apart, like into transonic or sub shortly after that point as I go from very nice 600 - 800 yd groups to about 2' groups at 900 yards and lucky to hit at 1,000.

Rifle perimeters
Remington 700 MilSpec
Remington Custom 5R 1:11 twist barrel, threaded 20" in length
Action blue printed, boltface trued, lugs lapped
Jewell BR trigger set at 11oz
Nightforce Extreme Base in 30 MOA
Nightforce Ultra Rings Extra Highs
HS Precision PST62 Stock, bedded and floated
HS Precision DM Bottom Metal
Kampfeld Custom Brake
Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm M1 TMR Scope

Current Handloads
Federal Gold Metal Brass (Sorted by weight, trimmed, flash holes deburred, primer pockets uniformed, chamfered/deburred, neck sized at .337" with .002 neck tension)
CCI BR-2 Primers
43.4 grains of RL15
168 SMK's
COAL 2.845" (long freebore)

This load shoots sub .2" groups at 100 yards

I figure per my ranging and mils needed while shooting the rounds are moving at about 2560'/sec out of my 20" barrel. Thanks

Skeeter

 

[FatBoy]

The 168s are going subsonic. They are known for going transonic around 800-850 yards and they do not handle the tranotion well.

You should be able to switch to the 175SMK, drop the charge back a little and work up where you need to be. We just went through this exercise with a buddies 20" m700. The new 175 TMKs5 actually shoot a full MOA higher at 1K and they are 30fps slower. You may not get them as accurate inside 700 yards but beyond that the 175s will shoot well.

 

[284winner]

Try Berger 185s. I pushed them around 2725-2740 in a 26". Found them to be the best for 1000 yds. RL 15 is what I used. Been a while so not quite sure the charge. Berger has a good recipe I'm sure.

 

[BW64]

I've had success with 175 Nosler CC & 175 SMK tipped shooting 10"x10" steel at 1000 yards. Please start low with these loads as my Rem has a 26" Criterion barrel.
175 Nos. CC
48.3 IMR 4064
2690 FPS

175 Nos CC
44.0 Varget
2660 FPS

175 SMK Tipped
43.6 IMR 4064
2680 FPS

175 SMK Tipped
43.6 IMR 4064
2690 FPS

Again PLEASE START LOW & work up. Hope this helps.

BW

 

[FatBoy]

I think 185 Bergers in a 20" 12 twist might be a tough row to hoe... Has/is anyone doing this?

 

[chkunz]

Try Berger 185s. I pushed them around 2725-2740 in a 26". Found them to be the best for 1000 yds. RL 15 is what I used. Been a while so not quite sure the charge. Berger has a good recipe I'm sure.

He stated a 20 inch barrel, you have a 26 inch barrel, big difference in this case.

 

[chkunz]

I've had success with 175 Nosler CC & 175 SMK tipped shooting 10"x10" steel at 1000 yards. Please start low with these loads as my Rem has a 26" Criterion barrel.
175 Nos. CC
48.3 IMR 4064
2690 FPS

175 Nos CC
44.0 Varget
2660 FPS

175 SMK Tipped
43.6 IMR 4064
2680 FPS

175 SMK Tipped
43.6 IMR 4064
2690 FPS

Again PLEASE START LOW & work up. Hope this helps.

BW

You have a 26 inch barrel, he has a 20 inch barrel, big difference.

 

[rifleman700]

I have this same rifle and I found that RL15 and Varget are too slow for a 20" bbl. These powders are better suited for 24-26" bbls. I now use H4895 with Sierra 175's and I am running them at 2550 fps which is where most 24" loads run - generally, there are exceptions of course.

 

[chkunz]

Trying to make the 20 inch 308 shoot accurately to 1000 yards is probably not feasible. You are just going to frustrate yourself.

 

[Sniper338]

I shoot 175smk over varget in mine. 22 inch barrel. I have a 10 twist though.

 

[rifleman700]

Might be better with a good high BC 155 at 2900-3000 fps.

I have only dabbled with the 308 at that range with 175's but it seemed very capable. I am not a competition shooter so what I see and results I get may not be acceptable to someone who is.

Scratch the 2900-3000 fps. With 155's you would be lucky to get 2800 fps with a 20" bbl and acceptable pressures.

 

[Shynloco]

Trying to make the 20 inch 308 shoot accurately to 1000 yards is probably not feasible. You are just going to frustrate yourself.

+1. You are asking a lot from that short barrel to perform like a longer barrel would because the time a bullet is actually in the barrel (20") is significantly shorter.

A few years ago when I was testing Sierra 168 gr bullets in a 1:10 twist 26" barrel, the bulletsmith experts @sierra told me I'd need to use at least 175 gr HPBT's to get the accuracy I was wanting@ 1K. They also said to expect a drop off in accuracy using a 168gr HPBT after 500 yards. And the powder I was testing with was RE15, Varget and IMR4895. All three performed very well in short distance shooting, obviously using slightly different amounts. And that particular barrel likes the jump and hated the jam. Never did go beyond 500 yds with my tests though. Info only.

Alex

 

[jr600yd]

I'd give up on 168's SMK's for long range period. You might try some Bergers (different design) I'd go with either the Berger 155.5's or a 175 gr bullet. Either way with a short 20" barrel you'll be on the edge.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

You're going to need a bit of luck to make things work at 1000 with a 20" barrel.

I'd lean toward a 175 TMK and a max load of H4895. Your odds are better on a hot day at higher elevations. But if the BC and MV expectations come through, you should make it even at sea level.

 

[Skeeter]

Thanks Everyone. Seems the consensus here is trying a different bullet and maybe a different powder.

I did email Berger and Bob Blaine recommended their 185 Juggernaut running it with BL-C2 should be stable out to 1,100 yards. Berger's catalog has them listed for a 1:11 twist which mine has, but for a 24" barrel. Has anyone ever tried this combination?

I also went to the Shooter Notes and plugged in my information compared to the Nosler book for the 175-180 (not the Tipped SMK) and 44 gr RL15 which the manual has them running at 2617'/sec out of a 24" barrel and per ShootersNotes my 20" should deliver 2550'/sec. If I place that into my JBL calculator it takes the 175 Tipped SMK out to a little over 1,000 before falling off around 1,150 yards.

So it also seems like if I can get a combination that will shoot over 2,600'/sec with the tipped 175's I should be good to a grand and if I can get the tipped 168's out to 2650'/sec it too seems to work (at least in my calculator) out to a grand as well.

Also altitude where I was shooting is 2,284 feet, where I live and test my loads is 385' so the shooting location is higher altitude than my home range.

 

[ZenArchery]

Email Phil at Berger Bullet Co.
He answered all my questions and saved me a lot of time, money and energy.
Berger is great with communication and will get you to your goal.
I was using 168VLD and still use them for hunting purposes. Beyond 800 yards the round was useless.
Stepped into the 190VLD 185 would have been just fine but wanted extra weight to buck the wind and I have a longer barrel.

 

[284winner]

Yep you are correct. Guess I forgot about the 12 twist. Mine is a 10.

 

[venatic]

I am at about 500ft elevation and run the 175gr Sierra MKT's at 2650fps from a 1/12 twist 22 inch barrel and 1000 is no problem at all.
Same gun the 168gr Sierra MK's were squirrelly past 750 yards as I had not learned about their particular issues going sub-sonic.
I use XBR8208 powder by the way.

 

[284winner]

Barrel length must make more difference than I anticipated. I've got a 24" broughton 10 twist and 168s are good to 1000 but must be pushed hard. 175-185 is the standard for my gun out to that range.

 

[Skeeter]

"H4895 with Sierra 175's and I am running them at 2550 fps which is where most 24" loads run - generally, there are exceptions of course."

Rifleman700,
Have you shot this to a grand and has it worked for you? I can switch to 4895 and test it, but before I purchase more powder I wanted to make sure yours is hitting at the 1,000 yard distance. Also, what is the load data you are using on this? Thanks

Mark