neck turning tool recomendations.

[AusFclass]

i have been looking at gettting a new neck turning tool as my first sinclair tool is hard to adjust and virtually impossible to repeat a measurement.

ive been looking very closely at the PMA and as also the pumpkin. there might be some others out there aswell that i havent seen.

i swap between calibers and i need a tool that can be reset easily.

 

[navyrad8r]

http://www.21stcenturyshooting.com/Neck_Turning_Tool_Kit.php
Aus,
buy this and dont look back. excellent repeatability, easy adjustments, awesome quality and outstanding customer service. John (owner) is 21shooter in the forum, shoot him a pm. i turn for .260 and .308. i bought the whole kit (not the lathe) and extra mandrel/arbor for the second caliber. no more hand cramping, and the expander/arbor are matched to each other. Daughter christine handles the phones and internet stuff, she will be able to help you get it delivered down under. i hope it helps!
cheers,
doc

 

[dreever]

Did you read my review of the PMA neck Turning Tool? http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/05/gear-review-pma-neck-turning-tool/
Honestly it is the best neck turner I've ever used. Super easy to setup and change between calibers.
The best recomendation I can give is that I didn't send it back I bought it!

Danny

 

[mikecr]

I consider the Sinclair NT4000 the standard from which the fly-by-nights copy.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/09/sinclair-neck-turning-system/

 

[Erik Cortina]

I use the Pumpkin. Excellent tool, never used any of the others, never felt the need to because when I bought the pumpkin I bought my first and last neck turner.

 

[mikecr]

Erik, what expansion system is used with the Nielson?

 

[6BRinNZ]

+1 for the sinclair 4000...There is a lot of focus on the depth of cut and thats nailed.

The sinclair uses an allen key to control the amount that the shoulder gets cut into...it would be nice to have a micrometer for this as well.

- Danny I couldn't tell how the PMA controls the cut into the shoulder - it has held me back from trying PMA.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Erik, what expansion system is used with the Nielson?

Expanding mandrel, I ordered it when I ordered the turner.

 

[mikecr]

You don't really need micrometer adjustment for cut length onto a shoulder, as you only need to cut a 'sufficient' distance onto the shoulder to head-off donuts(and only if you want to). This is not an exact amount or anything. It's 'enough' or more.
I don't even use length stops. I just run it up onto the shoulder a bit provided my cutter angle closely matches shoulder angles.

So much is made/overbuilt/hyped of this, and a few other things about turning. But in reality, it's pretty hard to screw it up.
All the concerns about every adjustment resolution is shared only by the unexperienced, and there is just no basis for it. With a neck mic, feeler gage & three culled cases, you can set ANY turner dead nuts.
And that is just what it takes with any turner,, micrometer adjustments or not.

The most important consideration about turning equipment, is the turning mandrel & expansion system.
The best mandrel system allows turning of new brass right out of the box, with a quick run through of the expander mandrel. These finished necks should be left ready to seat bullets(without sizing), and no eccentricity should be introduced by that expansion.

Second to that: cutters/angle options/hardened mandrel options.

Beyond that, ease of use -during the cut.
The turner itself should allow you to easily hold it during the cut, to watch what you're cutting, clean easily, and quickly give up it's heat.

I don't 'hand turn'. I have always used some form of case lathe. Couldn't imagine this not being worthwhile. I'm now considering giving up my Nielson for a Benchrite. This, because it uses Sinclair's best caseholder.


Ok, Erik, that didn't answer my question. What expanding mandrel system is included with Nielson's turning system? Did you order a Sinclair expander system?
If not, do Nielson's expanders work in a die? What diameter are the expanders?

 

[Erik Cortina]

I don't know because I don't need to know! I called Kelbly and told them I needed a turner with a turning mandrel and an expanded mandrel and a die to hold it. That's it!

I take brass out of the box, run expander mandrel in it, turn it, throw brass in Stainless steel media to clean lubricant, and prime, charge, and seat bullets. The mandrel provides about .001" neck tension.

 

[6BRinNZ]

You don't really need micrometer adjustment for cut length onto a shoulder, as you only need to cut a 'sufficient' distance onto the shoulder to head-off donuts(and only if you want to). This is not an exact amount or anything. It's 'enough' or more.
I don't even use length stops. I just run it up onto the shoulder a bit provided my cutter angle closely matches shoulder angles.

So much is made/overbuilt/hyped of this, and a few other things about turning. But in reality, it's pretty hard to screw it up.
All the concerns about every adjustment resolution is shared only by the unexperienced, and there is just no basis for it. With a neck mic, feeler gage & three culled cases, you can set ANY turner dead nuts.
And that is just what it takes with any turner,, micrometer adjustments or not.

Mikecr - agreed but - the shoulder adjustment is personal preference, I would prefer to have something easier to adjust than an allen key as I find it easier to run up to a stop point....

While your second point is again correct it doesn't cater for the "ease" factor of adjustment...which is the main point when flicking between calibers....or even same caliber different necks.

IMO the later turners all seem to be very good, the differentiator is ease of use and ease of repeatability.

AusFclass - I understand some people are buying multiple K&M turners and setting each one for the specific rifle...I have no opinion on this just mentioning what some people are doing...

 

[brian427cobra]

I have a 21st Century turner, I have never turned a neck with anything else, it was super easy to set up, the cuts are always the same, it is very comfortable in my hands, I am going to upgrade to the complete neck turning lathe kit as I have a lot of brass to turn.

http://www.21stcenturyshooting.com/

 

[AusFclass]

yes i did have a look at the 21st century turner turner aswell but the PMA looks to be a very neat unit with simple micrometer on one end.

yes i know how to set a neck turner with guages and measure a few things and get it rite but that being said being able to dial in to .0005 on the first case after a caliber change would be enjoyable ;D

i found that when i expand cases with the sinclair mandrel they are slightly loose on the turning mandrel. . . any tips?

 

[mikecr]

No matter the hype, you can't just dial in exactly what you want. You have to creep into it with a bit of trial & error(a few cases), while measuring your results.
That's not to say you can't get lucky with the first adjustment. Just that you can't expect it without a baseline cut & measure to go by.

Cutting brass is a dynamic action that get's into surface shearing depending on how much is taken with any given pass, the speed of turn, the speed of feed, cutter sharpness/hardness. Then there is brass hardness, and shifting later as turner body/mandrel/cutter temps rise(if you turn a bunch of cases quickly, depending on lube, & cooling between).
Mandrel fit comes into play, but not as much as you might think. I've turned really well with both horrible mandrel fits, and with extreme runout.
It's pretty hard to screw up.

AusFclass, is the loose fitting brass in question brand new out of the box? Or fired brass? Has it been annealed? How thick is it?

 

[artbosco]

[quote author=Erik Cortina] The mandrel provides about .001" neck tension.
[/quote]

Tension or clearance? I hope you mean clearance. Tension will only heat up the neck's brass which you want to avoid.

 

[artbosco]

i have been looking at getting a new neck turning tool as my first Sinclair tool is hard to adjust and virtually impossible to repeat a measurement. i swap between calibers and i need a tool that can be reset easily.

I have dedicated turners. No resetting once accomplished. The K&M Turners [ http://www.kmshooting.com/catalog/neck-turner-tools/micro-adjustable-neck-turner_body-only_standard-pilot.html ] are relatively inexpensive, unless you have a handful of different cartridges.

 

[DennisH]

I use the Forster outside neck turner, no issues, love it!

I can turn 150 case pretty quick! I use the power drill adapter, low rpm, no problems

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sbb-F_QiBI

 

[Erik Cortina]

[quote author=Erik Cortina] The mandrel provides about .001" neck tension.

Tension or clearance? I hope you mean clearance. Tension will only heat up the neck's brass which you want to avoid.
[/quote]

I meant neck tension for seating bullets. Therefore I can seat a bullet right after turning the brass, no need for any extra steps other than cleaning the brass.

It does provide clearance for the neck turning mandrel, enough to keep things straight.

 

[Erik Cortina]

yes i did have a look at the 21st century turner turner aswell but the PMA looks to be a very neat unit with simple micrometer on one end.

yes i know how to set a neck turner with guages and measure a few things and get it rite but that being said being able to dial in to .0005 on the first case after a caliber change would be enjoyable ;D

i found that when i expand cases with the sinclair mandrel they are slightly loose on the turning mandrel. . . any tips?

With the Nielson Pumpkin I can dial .0001" at a time. It is very easy to set up. I can also set the exact amount I want to cut into the shoulder, all I need is a feeler gauge and I'm set.

 

[AusFclass]

No matter the hype, you can't just dial in exactly what you want. You have to creep into it with a bit of trial & error(a few cases), while measuring your results.
That's not to say you can't get lucky with the first adjustment. Just that you can't expect it without a baseline cut & measure to go by.

Cutting brass is a dynamic action that get's into surface shearing depending on how much is taken with any given pass, the speed of turn, the speed of feed, cutter sharpness/hardness. Then there is brass hardness, and shifting later as turner body/mandrel/cutter temps rise(if you turn a bunch of cases quickly, depending on lube, & cooling between).
Mandrel fit comes into play, but not as much as you might think. I've turned really well with both horrible mandrel fits, and with extreme runout.
It's pretty hard to screw up.

AusFclass, is the loose fitting brass in question brand new out of the box? Or fired brass? Has it been annealed? How thick is it?

yes i understand that there is a bit more to it that just dialing it up first go but being able to make small adjustments and not going too far one way then too much the other like the sinclair would be good.

its the first neck turn chamber that i have played with so i was expecting the mandrel to be a gentle push in fit?? i am turning brand new rem 7SAUM brass after being uniformed with a sinclair expander mandrel. it starts out around .016". they still give nice light neck tension on bullets but just seems looser on the turning mandrel than i would expect.

i also found that even after triming i wouldnt get an even cut into the sholder case to case.


i have a new reamer on the way with an even tighter neck and i am thinking that it would be best to trim and turn to within .001 of the final diameter, keeping back from the shoulder slightly. then fire form the cases, to blow the shoulders out evenly, and turn the final .001 and take the cut into the shoulder????