Neck turning 6PPC brass

[michaeljp]

Just a quick question,
i started to neck turn a few new cases for for my 6PPC .262 neck. At the neck / shoulder junction i have a very very small lip after turning. Is this normal or have i done something wrong?

 

[artbosco]

Just a quick question, i started to neck turn a few new cases for for my 6PPC .262 neck. At the neck / shoulder junction i have a very very small lip after turning. Is this normal or have i done something wrong?

Good day, Mic!

That's normal to a point. When turning into the neck, no more than 1/32th of an inch [which is a good guideline], you can feel a very slight lip with your fingernail. That will soon go away upon your first fire-form.

Here's a way to minimize anything more than that: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/01/tool-tip-optimize-your-cutter-angle-for-improved-neck-turning/

 

[cummins cowboy]

I use a K&M neck turning tool and don't set the stop but rather just run the tool down until it hits the shoulder lightly. it bottom out it might leave a slight groove but not much.

 

[Julien]

Like the others have said into the shoulder a bit , if you don't go enough it will be hard to close the bolt and you will end up with a donut inside the neck that you will have to ream out.
Also make sure you put alot of neck tension for your fireform and seat the bullet tight in the lands.

 

[michaeljp]

Thanks for your replies fellas. I do use a K&M tool and the turning mandrell has a donut cutter on it, so if they do form ill just run them over the mandrell.

Julien,
You say to seat the projectiles tight into the lands. Wont that cause a bit of over pressure and cause the bolt to stick?
I was also told to lightly wipe the case with a oiled patch before inserting into the chamber, is that something i should also do?

 

[artbosco]

You say to seat the projectiles tight into the lands. Won't that cause a bit of over pressure and cause the bolt to stick? I was also told to lightly wipe the case with a oiled patch before inserting into the chamber, is that something i should also do?

By seating the bullets hard [which are a relatively soft material] into the lands, [I look for a square mark on my bullet at the Ogive], you do increase pressure, but that helps the 220 Russian case blow forward at the shoulder and transitions it into the 6PPC.

The Lightly oiling of the case [only required for the first and maybe the second fire-forming] prevents a case from sticking to the chamber walls and over stressing/stretching it in the case head area. It's part of the normal process in the forming of the 6PPC, and I might add, 30BR cases too.

 

[michaeljp]

thanks Outdoorsman,
So when it comes to loading,I'll do a dummy round first, if i take the firing pin out and seat the projectile out so far that the bolt is just able to cam over (close) thats about right?

 

[artbosco]

So when it comes to loading, I'll do a dummy round first, if i take the firing pin out and seat the projectile out so far that the bolt is just able to cam over (close) that's about right?

There are TWO things I do with the 6PPC case and then dummy round:

1. After I re-size the brass, to ensure the F/L Die did its job properly, I insert just the case into the chamber with a bolt that's had the firing pin removed. When the bolt is closed it should drop down about half way, just through gravity [using its own weight]. After that, all it should take is a little effort by you to close it. This is a check to ensure the shoulder was pushed back enough and its other dimensions were re-sized correctly too.

2. I then seat a bullet into the unprimed, empty case. I make seating adjustments, so that when the case and bullet are chambered and the bolt closed, I get a square mark on the bullet from the lands.

I'm doing two different tests. One on the case, checking the re-sizing, the other, checks my bullet seating depth. The are plenty of ways to do these things, these are the methods taught to me by regional and national competition winners.

 

[Julien]

Thanks for your replies fellas. I do use a K&M tool and the turning mandrell has a donut cutter on it, so if they do form ill just run them over the mandrell.

Julien,
You say to seat the projectiles tight into the lands. Wont that cause a bit of over pressure and cause the bolt to stick?
I was also told to lightly wipe the case with a oiled patch before inserting into the chamber, is that something i should also do?

The reason to seat the bullets long is when fireforming if you happen to have turned into the neck a bit to far and take up some headspace ,you dont want the casing to be pushed ahead by the firing pin, it will cause the web of the case head to stretch and ruin your brass.

Once the case head is stretched means there will be a thining of the web and lead to a case head seperation, you want your brass to stay in firm contact with the boltface.
As far as light oiling I never did it always dry but it seems some guys do.

So as I mentioned before use plenty of neck tension and seat your bullets tight into the lands ,make up a dummy round and seat a bullet then chamber it to make sure you see the rifling for about 20 or 30 thous on the bullet shank.
Use a moderate load to form dont use a max load and your brass will come out shining .

 

[artbosco]

Also don't put any lubricant on your brass make sure it is clean and dry same as the chamber, when the pressures build up the brass pushes on the chamber walls ,the bolt only takes part of the thrust. Oil on your brass is dangerous it will put a lot more thrust on the bolt lugs.

Julien, How do you account for the hundreds of competitive Benchrest shooters, including Tony Boyer, who advocate lightly oiling brass for the first and maybe the second fire-forming of new brass?

The recommendation not to use it, is best adhered to by shooters using vintage and factory hunting rifles. But, when it comes to modern 6PPC custom built actions, that can withstand pressures in excess of 65,000 to 70,000 PSI, it's a moot point.

Please read page 154, second paragraph, of Tony Boyer's new book The Book Of Rifle Accuracy, for his thoughts on lightly oiling the outside of cases and the reasons for it. This has been a standard practice within the short-range, competitive Benchrest community, for years.

 

[Julien]

Julien, How do you account for the hundreds of competitive Benchrest shooters, including Tony Boyer, who advocate lightly oiling brass for the first and maybe the second fire-forming of new brass?

The recommendation not to use it, is best adhered to by shooters using vintage and factory hunting rifles. But, when it comes to modern 6PPC custom built actions, that can withstand pressures in excess of 65,000 to 70,000 PSI, it's a moot point.

Please read page 154, second paragraph, of Tony Boyer's new book The Book Of Rifle Accuracy, for his thoughts on lightly oiling the outside of cases and the reasons for it. This has been a standard practice within the short-range, competitive Benchrest community, for years.
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After I posted I read a few of the other replies and seen some of you suggested light oiling,I didn't want to go against the grain here so I removed that statement.
If you look at my post the times of posting and editing are there.
Now I have never oiled my casings and my brass comes out fine ,maybe your way is better I dont know never tried it.

A lot of guys I have shot with over the years dont oil and was always told it was a bad idea, but it seems a lot of guys are doing it from what you are saying so it must be fine then.

 

[SS427]

My two cents....probably isn't worth that much yet....

I just fire formed my first batch of 6ppc cases. I found "jam" and seated all the bullets at that distance. Loaded with 26.5 grains of 133. This charge was determined by loading the virgin brass to the bottom of the neck a few times, weighing and taking an average. Oiled the cases as I had been told.

The cases all easily came out of the chamber, remarkably close to the dimensions of the reamer used to chamber my rifle. One more firing and I'm hopeful they will be fully fire formed.

For quite a while I was intimidated by the neck turning and fire forming requirements of the 6ppc. I'm surprised how easy it all is and encourage anyone thinking about getting into the 6ppc to do it without worries. Now if I can master the act of shooting and get aggs in the teens and 2s I will really be happy.

The hard part has already been figured out for us. Now all we have to do is stand on the shoulders of those that came before us and shoot tiny groups!