Neck turner mounted on case trimmer lathe.
- Thread starter Tozguy
- Start date
I have serious doubt about the end product there. There's a reason we have the hand-held units - to let the neck center on the pilot and cut true to the neck. By mounting it rigidly and having the brass mounted in the trimmer it will not be resisting running true on the neck and mandrel/pilot. Small variation in the tools and brass need to be allowed to float and center on the neck and pilot only.
As Dick Wright said in the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide:
"Do not put the neckturner tool in a vise. In order to turn case necks true with no run out, you have to use your left hand to hold the tool and act as a 'floating holder.' I defy you to turn necks accurately if you are holding the tool in a vise or anything but your hand."
"Do not put it in a vise or any kind of fixture. You use your hand like what craftsman call a 'floating holder."
Wayne
As Dick Wright said in the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide:
"Do not put the neckturner tool in a vise. In order to turn case necks true with no run out, you have to use your left hand to hold the tool and act as a 'floating holder.' I defy you to turn necks accurately if you are holding the tool in a vise or anything but your hand."
"Do not put it in a vise or any kind of fixture. You use your hand like what craftsman call a 'floating holder."
Wayne
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Tozguy,
Thats a novel idea you have there. Have you checked to see if the pilot in the n/k turner inline with the centerline of the case? Owning several RCBS products myself I can't imagine the hole you used in the n/k turning is machined perfectly into the tool I would think it was just drilled which would mean its not perfectly inline with the cutter pilot. I think I would have to side with 15Tango on this.
Trim some old brass with it and take some precise measurements of n/k wall thickness in several places and concentricity of the brass before and after and give us a report, it will be interesting to see maybe you have something there
Wayne.
Thats a novel idea you have there. Have you checked to see if the pilot in the n/k turner inline with the centerline of the case? Owning several RCBS products myself I can't imagine the hole you used in the n/k turning is machined perfectly into the tool I would think it was just drilled which would mean its not perfectly inline with the cutter pilot. I think I would have to side with 15Tango on this.
Trim some old brass with it and take some precise measurements of n/k wall thickness in several places and concentricity of the brass before and after and give us a report, it will be interesting to see maybe you have something there
Wayne.
Let me remind everybody that I only pointed out that the RCBS neck turn fit on the Redding case length trimming lathe. This it does very well…I had to stone the burrs off the cutter for it to slip into the RCBS tool. It probably fits tighter in the bore of the turner than the mandrel does.
THIS IS IN THE ‘FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH’ CATEGORY AND MUST NOT BE INTERPRETED AS A SUGGESTION FOR YOU TO DO ANYTHING. If this is of no interest to you then no need to read further.
This ‘compatibility’ was discovered purely by accident. However, it is a welcome discovery for me because of the frustration I was having with the RCBS shell holder that came with the turner kit. It was far from obvious to me that I was keeping the 223 case aligned properly using the ‘two floating hands’ method while the cutter was biting into the brass. Controlling feed rate by hand was tricky and ‘stop and go’ cutting speed (rpm) very limited. I kept asking myself why neck turning is not as much fun as case length trimming.
This discovery encouraged me to see how far I could go with the idea of using the turner on the lathe. You might have noted from the picture that the added set screw is in line with the mandrel set screw in order to keep both the Redding cutter and RCBS mandrel to the same side of the bore in the tool. When the shell is installed in the Redding holder the neck is slipped over the tip of the mandrel before tightening the holder. It turns out that alignment of the case to the mandrel is very good with no wobble or binding. The crank turns very smoothly. It is a breeze to operate with the original crank on the Redding lathe. Based on how well my initial trials went, I can’t imagine going back to the ‘two floating hands’ method.
Please be aware that I respect anyone who is happy with their own way of turning necks whatever it may be. What I have described above is by no means considered to be better than anyone else’s but it sure is more fun for me now to turn necks.
THIS IS IN THE ‘FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH’ CATEGORY AND MUST NOT BE INTERPRETED AS A SUGGESTION FOR YOU TO DO ANYTHING. If this is of no interest to you then no need to read further.
This ‘compatibility’ was discovered purely by accident. However, it is a welcome discovery for me because of the frustration I was having with the RCBS shell holder that came with the turner kit. It was far from obvious to me that I was keeping the 223 case aligned properly using the ‘two floating hands’ method while the cutter was biting into the brass. Controlling feed rate by hand was tricky and ‘stop and go’ cutting speed (rpm) very limited. I kept asking myself why neck turning is not as much fun as case length trimming.
This discovery encouraged me to see how far I could go with the idea of using the turner on the lathe. You might have noted from the picture that the added set screw is in line with the mandrel set screw in order to keep both the Redding cutter and RCBS mandrel to the same side of the bore in the tool. When the shell is installed in the Redding holder the neck is slipped over the tip of the mandrel before tightening the holder. It turns out that alignment of the case to the mandrel is very good with no wobble or binding. The crank turns very smoothly. It is a breeze to operate with the original crank on the Redding lathe. Based on how well my initial trials went, I can’t imagine going back to the ‘two floating hands’ method.
Please be aware that I respect anyone who is happy with their own way of turning necks whatever it may be. What I have described above is by no means considered to be better than anyone else’s but it sure is more fun for me now to turn necks.
I always find it interesting when folks re-invent the wheel.
And suddenly find a vast improvement to equipment thats been used for decades.
Then get defensive when folks with years of experiance point out a few facts they may have over looked.
In a case like this, getting any real feed back after the tools have been used is in doubt before it's even offered. This will of course work perfectly.
A totally new innovation,, Brilliant. All to automate a precision process to improve the load's accuracy,, in bulk, and quickly.
,,dang! Why didn't I think of that!
And suddenly find a vast improvement to equipment thats been used for decades.
Then get defensive when folks with years of experiance point out a few facts they may have over looked.
In a case like this, getting any real feed back after the tools have been used is in doubt before it's even offered. This will of course work perfectly.
A totally new innovation,, Brilliant. All to automate a precision process to improve the load's accuracy,, in bulk, and quickly.
,,dang! Why didn't I think of that!
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Tozguy,
I apologize if my thoughts on the subject offended you, it wasn't intended that way. I merely wanted to point out some possible flaws that might effect your expensive brass. I am glad the equipment you have constructed is working well for you.
Best regards Wayne.
I apologize if my thoughts on the subject offended you, it wasn't intended that way. I merely wanted to point out some possible flaws that might effect your expensive brass. I am glad the equipment you have constructed is working well for you.
Best regards Wayne.
Wayne, (both of you)
I appreciate your consideration but please know that your comments did not offend me. This place is great for getting help with questions but in this case I was just offering up a tidbit of trivia and not asking for help. When I do ask for help, rest assured that it will be a disappointment if I do not hear from you.
Take care, Mike
I appreciate your consideration but please know that your comments did not offend me. This place is great for getting help with questions but in this case I was just offering up a tidbit of trivia and not asking for help. When I do ask for help, rest assured that it will be a disappointment if I do not hear from you.
Take care, Mike
"Do not put the neckturner tool in a vise. In order to turn case necks true with no run out, you have to use your left hand to hold the tool and act as a 'floating holder.' I defy you to turn necks accurately if you are holding the tool in a vise or anything but your hand."
"Do not put it in a vise or any kind of fixture. You use your hand like what craftsman call a 'floating holder."
Wayne - That is exctly what Ken Markle told me many years ago.
"Do not put it in a vise or any kind of fixture. You use your hand like what craftsman call a 'floating holder."
Wayne - That is exctly what Ken Markle told me many years ago.
I can't blame anybody for testing innovation. I get sick of holding the thing when turning and often wish I had something else. The only thing I can think of that would stop the torque from turning yet also be able to freely wobble and sway any way it wanted would be something with one of those flexible extensions like this:
Maybe someday when I'm bored I'll try to rig something up.
Wayne
Maybe someday when I'm bored I'll try to rig something up.
Wayne
I hand hold my cutter,and chuck my holder in a cordless like so many probably do. Just watching the holder wobble as it turns makes me question the method. I just cant trick myself into enjoying turning necks! :-[
I mount my neck turner in my big ol lathe and feed cases onto the spinning turner with a Sinclair case holder. My necks come out perfectly.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Great find Tozguy....
If I'd only known earlier (like a few years ago) I would not of bought the Lyman neck Turning set for my powered Universal Trimmer.
If I'd only known earlier (like a few years ago) I would not of bought the Lyman neck Turning set for my powered Universal Trimmer.
I have used a few different methods to neck turn brass, one was a small case "lathe" I had made by mounting a drill motor horizontally on a small platform I had made with a foot pedal to control speed, like you would find on a sewing machine. I had used Lee case holders from their trimming system, but have now upgraded to the 3 jaw chuck and stud they offer. It works great and is very fast to swap out cases. I still hold the neck turning tool, as I was too lazy to install a feed system to hold it.
I have also used my Grizzly lathe to turn cases as well, but by machining a mandrel to final neck ID with a small shoulder which I turn to the final neck OD and use the Lee 3 jaw chuck and stud in a drill chuck mounted in the tailstock to push the case onto the mandrel, then I release the Lee chuck back it off just a bit so the case can spin. Now I single point cut the neck in 2 or 3 passes with the auto feed set quite slow. I get exceptional results using this method, at least as good as with a K&M neck turning tool, and quite possibly better. And it actually goes very fast as well, with very little actual work on my part. ;D
I don't see why the Tozguy's method cannot be made to work. Even if he must find a way to make the cutter float, it shouldn't be too difficult. But if he gets results that he is satisfied with, then who are we to say he is "wrong"?
Good luck Tozguy, I'm glad you shared your innovation with us. I hope it produces results you are happy with. And if you are happy, then that's all that really matters.
Kenny
I have also used my Grizzly lathe to turn cases as well, but by machining a mandrel to final neck ID with a small shoulder which I turn to the final neck OD and use the Lee 3 jaw chuck and stud in a drill chuck mounted in the tailstock to push the case onto the mandrel, then I release the Lee chuck back it off just a bit so the case can spin. Now I single point cut the neck in 2 or 3 passes with the auto feed set quite slow. I get exceptional results using this method, at least as good as with a K&M neck turning tool, and quite possibly better. And it actually goes very fast as well, with very little actual work on my part. ;D
I don't see why the Tozguy's method cannot be made to work. Even if he must find a way to make the cutter float, it shouldn't be too difficult. But if he gets results that he is satisfied with, then who are we to say he is "wrong"?
Good luck Tozguy, I'm glad you shared your innovation with us. I hope it produces results you are happy with. And if you are happy, then that's all that really matters.
Kenny
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