Neck tension starting point

[Bart B.]

when seating a bullet the shoulder is not supported;

Bonanza, now Forster, seating dies center case shoulder in their floating bullet guide's shoulder. Case shoulders are so supported.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

every seater I've ever used supports the shoulder- just as its supported in the chamber since the die is a mirror image of it.

 

[dcali]

Generally speaking, .002 is a good starting point.

As for what's optimal, you'll get a hundred different answers, opinions and beliefs. I decided to try to quantify neck tension in a way that could shed some light on what we're after, and came up with this:

http://bisonballistics.com/articles/case-neck-tension-a-stress-analysis

It does not provide a definitive answer, but it lends some support to "light is good", and puts some numbers around annealing strategies. Going through the analysis was illuminating for me.

A couple takeaways:

-The case neck yields at a very low neck tension.
-Annealed case necks yield at almost any neck tension.
-Never annealing might provide the most consistent neck tension once the brass hardens. (This is not fact, but rather plausible speculation.)
-Stress in the case neck is *not* dependent on neck wall thickness.
-Larger calibers can tolerate more neck tension before brass yields.

 

[fguffey]

Bonanza, now Forster, seating dies center case shoulder in their floating bullet guide's shoulder

I can only guess you are happy with that, I wasn't.

F. Guffey

 

[Webster]

Based on what Bart ? - Show some definitive real world test results because that simply has not been reality in my own tests.

You said you already did test and you know what tension works in your rifle, so why are you asking questions on internet? You should know you will get different opinions.

 

[Falfan2017]

I keep it simple. .001 for single loaded target rounds like bench or f class and .003 for magazine fed either bolt action or semi. However .003 isn't that much so I wouldn't recommend rechambering a round over and over in a semi.

 

[dellet]

Have to agree with Guffy on lack of shoulder support in a die. To fully support the shoulder, it would require internal pressure or mechanical support, which a die does not provide.

About all a seating die can do is keep the case from expanding from too much powder compression, while it's in the die.

A bullet with enough hold on the neck, will push the neck and shoulder down inside the body.

Other factors may apply.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

You said you already did test and you know what tension works in your rifle, so why are you asking questions on internet? You should know you will get different opinions.

I'm NOT asking Questions Webster - I'm stating My opinion - I am NOT the OP (original poster)
I know Very Well what neck Tensions are required in my calibers because I not only keep good records but I save fired upon targets with the loading data affixed And I Know How to Test.

So, Why are you Busting My Balls ??
I'm getting really fed up of the Keyboard Warriors on here !!! And the Freeloaders who use up a ton of bandwidth & Server space traveling from thread to thread & putting there 2 bits into every post !!!
I'm Finding this site to be a PITA & I'm looking at moving on. - To much "Gray-Noise"
And to many that "Pile on" if someone says something. - People who say shit that they wouldn't if they were looking you in they eyes face to face.

- Done - !!!!

 

[urbanrifleman]

As of recently, I have discovered that you can use a smaller bushing and size less of the neck and get wonderfully consistent neck tension. Not to mention you can avoid the neck sizing low on the neck that promotes a donut.

I went down .003" and kept lowering the bushing until the tension was perfect (seating in my Wilson die), as the tension becomes directly related to the length. Of course, I don't turn necks and use Lapua brass. On my 243 I ended up sizing about .125". This was the most consistent through all the brass I had experienced since loading the 243.

 

[urbanrifleman]

And to many that "Pile on" if someone says something. - People who say shit that they wouldn't if they were looking you in they eyes face to face.

I have observed the exact same thing.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Have to agree with Guffy on lack of shoulder support in a die. To fully support the shoulder, it would require internal pressure or mechanical support, which a die does not provide.

About all a seating die can do is keep the case from expanding from too much powder compression, while it's in the die.

A bullet with enough hold on the neck, will push the neck and shoulder down inside the body.

Other factors may apply.

So does the rifle’s chamber have shoulder support?

 

[dellet]

So does the rifle’s chamber have shoulder support?

No, but the chamber does support the shoulder of the case when fired.

The chamber only allows the case to expand from internal pressure, to the size and shape of the chamber. The case is then supported on both sides briefly.

 

[David Christian]

I'm NOT asking Questions Webster - I'm stating My opinion - I am NOT the OP (original poster)
I know Very Well what neck Tensions are required in my calibers because I not only keep good records but I save fired upon targets with the loading data affixed And I Know How to Test.

So, Why are you Busting My Balls ??
I'm getting really fed up of the Keyboard Warriors on here !!! And the Freeloaders who use up a ton of bandwidth & Server space traveling from thread to thread & putting there 2 bits into every post !!!
I'm Finding this site to be a PITA & I'm looking at moving on. - To much "Gray-Noise"
And to many that "Pile on" if someone says something. - People who say shit that they wouldn't if they were looking you in they eyes face to face.

- Done - !!!!

Relax...spread your knowledge when beneficial, ignore the rest.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

wednesday shooting
300 win mag
berger 210 lrtg
ave 2875 2.6sd just under .25moa
.001 neck tension

SHOW us that Target Mike.

 

[fguffey]

Bonanza, now Forster, seating dies

Again, I made a seater, I said nothing about a die meaning my seater does not have a die body. And then there were Herter universal seating dies with the window in the side. The bullet guide was supported by the shoulder of the case.

F. Guffey

 

[retired]

no, i do not save targets. i do log the data, 0.427 at 200 and 80 degrees h4831 .006 off
when this rifle was new it shot right at .31/.32 at 200 yds.(0.15/.16 moa) so .25 is not that great.
it does have about 600 rounds thru it so i would expect accuracy to start dropping off.
the past was about the neck tension and the sd/es .

SHOW us that Target Mike.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

no, i do not save targets. i do log the data, 0.427 at 200 and 80 degrees h4831 .006 off
when this rifle was new it shot right at .31/.32 at 200 yds.(0.15/.16 moa) so .25 is not that great.
it does have about 600 rounds thru it so i would expect accuracy to start dropping off.
the past was about the neck tension and the sd/es .

Mhmmmmm - I was looking forward to seeing a target ............. We've worn neck-tension and a few other thing right out..........

There's one I shot @ 200 yds. with .003 neck tension at this link (the 28 Nosler) http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/official-gun-pix-pride-joy-thread.2990828/page-25

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

I shot at that one 20 times - one shot right after another. - I wanted to see how she held up when she warmed up. And I think that the group says a little bit about the overall consistency of the load, including the "Starting Neck Tension"

- Have a Nice Day -

 

[retired]

two things
1)when at or past jam neck tension has little influence, the bullet hammed in the lands ahs much more resistance than a couple thou of neck tension.

2) was .003 the original neck tension in load development ?

I shot at that one 20 times - one shot right after another. - I wanted to see how she held up when she warmed up. And I think that the group says a little bit about the overall consistency of the load, including the "Starting Neck Tension"

- Have a Nice Day -

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

two things
1)when at or past jam neck tension has little influence, the bullet hammed in the lands ahs much more resistance than a couple thou of neck tension.

2) was .003 the original neck tension in load development ?

Yeahp 0.003

- Now, Do you want me to show you another 5 shot group that is 0.087 where the bullets were approx. 8-12 thousands OFF the lands @ 100 ?? - It's posted on this forum -

My POINT is, I don't size the whole neck - usually about 40-60% of it, because I want to preserve the already perfectly fit neck portion of the brass at the neck shoulder junction because it aids in alignment to the bore.

LAST but Not Least - If you've found that 0.001 has & is your "Huckleberry" then I'm fine with it if you are.

I've just personally found that light neck tension leads to vertical stringing & I've had good success using more tension.

- R -