Neck tension problem

[DLT]

So I have been shooting a 6xc, running Peterson brass which I would like to think has consistent neck thickness. I anneal over flame until dark red +/- 6 seconds per case, size with a Wilson full length bushing die using a .268 bushing, brush with a nylon brush. I was noticing while seating the 108 bergers that most would seat with a little force while once in a while I would encounter one that seated easier. I do everything the same every time during my sizing/reloading process. I have measured my necks after sizing this batch and most come out at .269 while others is .268. I was using a little lube on my brush but stopped when I noticed a problem and it still persists. Only thing I have not checked is bullet dia. But I’m going to assume they are correct since they are bergers and my sized necks are inconsistent. What could cause this ? I know trusted posters on here that I believe and keep up with will scream annealing process while others I trust and follow say there isn’t any problem flame annealing. I just checked a recent batch and out of 15 cases 13 read .269, and just 2 at .268. Thanks for any insight. I am not expanding currently with a mandrel or have a expander ball installed

 

[Straightshooter1]

So I have been shooting a 6xc, running Peterson brass which I would like to think is consistent neck dia. I anneal over flame until dark red +/- 6 seconds, size with a Wilson full length bushing die using a .268 bushing, brush with a nylon brush. I was noticing while seating the 108 bergers that most would seat with a little force while once in a while I would encounter one that seated easier. I do everything the same every time during my sizing/reloading process. I have measured my necks after sizing this batch and most come out at .269 while others is .268. I was using a little lube on my brush but stopped when I noticed a problem and it still persists. Only thing I have not checked is bullet dia. But I’m going to assume they are correct since they are bergers and my necks are inconsistent. What could cause this ? I know trusted posters on here that I believe snd keep up with will scream annealing process while others I trust and follow say there isn’t any problem flame annealing. I just checked a recent batch and out of 15 cases 13 read .269, and just 2 at .268. Thanks for any insight

Sounds to me like you're simply looking at variations in neck wall thickness. . . assuming you're using an expander mandrel to get your neck tension.

 

[DLT]

Sounds to me like you're simply looking at variations in neck wall thickness. . . assuming you're using an expander mandrel to get your neck tension.

I do not use an expander. I do own one. I was just letting the bushing set the final diameter

 

[G Liles]

I’ve found that if I use dry moly inside the necks the bullets seat more consistently.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I do not use an expander. I do own one. I was just letting the bushing set the final diameter

You can still have that .268 - .269 variation on a loaded round due to neck thickness variation.


Amendment: ooops, my bad! That dimension is before loading a round. Damn, I'm getting old. Though, one can still have that much variation . . . especially after a few firings on non-annealed brass. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I would try a batch using the mandrel - and see the performance on target, not the micrometer.

 

[JFrank]

What is the OD neck diameter of a loaded round ?

 

[mikecr]

I imagine the annealing is messing with neck carbon layer/friction.

 

[DLT]

What is the OD neck diameter of a loaded round ?

I will check some more today when I get more loaded up. .271 is what I have got measured on loaded rounds that’s just checking a few here and there

 

[DLT]

I imagine the annealing is messing with neck carbon layer/friction.

They are coming out of the sizing die different. Loaded they are the same. Will double check what I load today and make sure they are .271 loaded

 

[DLT]

Sounds to me like you're simply looking at variations in neck wall thickness. . . assuming you're using an expander mandrel to get your neck tension.

I have not been using a expander ball or mandrel

 

[JFrank]

I will check some more today when I get more loaded up. .271 is what I have got measured on loaded rounds that’s just checking a few here and there

That’s fine, you don't need to measure every one. Maybe stop annealing for awhile and note the differences especially on the target.
Annealing isn’t a must do must have deed, do a little testing for yourself.

 

[DLT]

That’s fine, you don't need to measure every one. Maybe stop annealing for awhile and note the differences especially on the target.
Annealing isn’t a must do must have deed, do a little testing for yourself.

I have went without annealing before on other cartridges. I ended up with split necks and the same inconsistent neck tensions. That was with not so great of brass and warm loads in a 22/250

 

[Bill Norris]

I have went without annealing before on other cartridges. I ended up with split necks and the same inconsistent neck tensions. That was with not so great of brass and warm loads in a 22/250

Yea, with good brass you don't have to anneal. I have never annealed at all and never remember having a split neck on anything other than old Winchester brass many years ago.

 

[DLT]

You can still have that .268 - .269 variation on a loaded round due to neck thickness variation.


Amendment: ooops, my bad! That dimension is for loading a round. Damn, I'm getting old. Though, one can still have that much variation . . . especially after a few firings on non-annealed brass. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They are annealed for sure. I sized the remaining 15 that hadn’t been fired on this firing with one bushing size smaller. They all came out the same dimension

 

[DLT]

I would try a batch using the mandrel - and see the performance on target, not the micrometer.

I will try that. I have a .240, .241, .242 mandrel sizes I just wonder if they will move what’s been sized with a .268 bushing. When I used mandrels it was on brass that was sized with a non bushing full length die so it had plenty of room to work

 

[boltfluter]

I will try that. I have a .240, .241, .242 mandrel sizes I just wonder if they will move what’s been sized with a .268 bushing. When I used mandrels it was on brass that was sized with a non bushing full length die so it had plenty of room to work

Use a mandrel or expander ball. On unturned necks, final neck tension needs to be set on the ID and not on the OD. At least in my experience. Good luck and keep us posted.
Paul

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I will try that. I have a .240, .241, .242 mandrel sizes I just wonder if they will move what’s been sized with a .268 bushing. When I used mandrels it was on brass that was sized with a non bushing full length die so it had plenty of room to work

You should find that the mandrel that gives 1-2 thou of tension will be the winner. I size my BR , Norma brass, with a standard Redding die - expander removed, of course, and a .2425 mandrel. All brass annealed. Having said that - I just purchased the bushing die to use with my BRX - but yet to try it out (cos I'm in the UK on holiday right now) Only the ID is important, your necks can be sized/turned to establish OD.

 

[DLT]

Yea, with good brass you don't have to anneal. I have never annealed at all and never remember having a split neck on anything other than old Winchester brass many years ago.

No weird effects from not annealing ? I’m thinking about trying it to see. I dropped from a .268 bushing to a .267 and ran the 15 previously sized cases back through my die. It did seem to even out the neck diameter on all of them. I seated my bullets and every one measured .270 exactly right at the case mouth. No idea where the .271 came from unless I was previously measuring halfway down the necks.

 

[Webster]

So I have been shooting a 6xc, running Peterson brass which I would like to think has consistent neck thickness. I anneal over flame until dark red +/- 6 seconds per case, size with a Wilson full length bushing die using a .268 bushing, brush with a nylon brush. I was noticing while seating the 108 bergers that most would seat with a little force while once in a while I would encounter one that seated easier. I do everything the same every time during my sizing/reloading process. I have measured my necks after sizing this batch and most come out at .269 while others is .268. I was using a little lube on my brush but stopped when I noticed a problem and it still persists. Only thing I have not checked is bullet dia. But I’m going to assume they are correct since they are bergers and my sized necks are inconsistent. What could cause this ? I know trusted posters on here that I believe and keep up with will scream annealing process while others I trust and follow say there isn’t any problem flame annealing. I just checked a recent batch and out of 15 cases 13 read .269, and just 2 at .268. Thanks for any insight. I am not expanding currently with a mandrel or have a expander ball installed

I assume your neck turning. 1 thou is a tiny amount to measure. Personally, I don't think cartridges were ever supposed to be made to dimensions accurate to 1 thou. Maybe 1 thou variation is OK??? Erick Cortina has a video where he anneals brass then measures seating force with a pressure gauge. With cases all annealed the same way he sees a seating pressure range of about 10-20 lbs. Check out the video. A lot to learn from it. There are probably more important things than 1thou case dimensions to improve accuracy. I'm sure I will get flamed for my comments.

I like to look at the video's on UTube by the worlds best shooters and learn from them. Ignore everyone else. The top shooters spend a lot of time and money on their sport. I wouldn't be surprised if many spend $10-20 thou a year on their sport. You have to decide how much time and money you are willing to spend to enjoy shooting. You are not going to be competitive by being obsessed with case dimensions.

I have reached a level that would never be competitive and I am happy with what I can do. I shoot better than most of the average shooters at the range. Varmints don't evaluate a shooters ability.