You will never meet a top level competitive benchrest or F-Class shooter that neck sizes brass. They only FL size because it is the only way to maintain consistency in ammo throughout all dimensions of the brass so the rifle operates properly and rounds stay consistent on target.First, someone needs to explain WHY? Why would you give up concentricity in the chamber to brass fit?
Second, has anyone explained to everyone else that the top shooters who "full length" size are doing so with custom dies? And, newer presses that have a better 'float' fit for the brass in the shellholder?
Third, neck sizing works just fine when you're not ramping the loads up past the designed maximum operating pressure of a powder.
Fourth, Mac McMillan neck sized all his match loads. Only one guy in history has ever beaten him.
PRS, yeah I can see FL sizing. Top bench? F-Class? I don't see why. Unless you run your loads as hot as you can and HAVE to FL size so as not to beat the bolt open and closed with a hammer. And, gall your lug faces. But, those are just commodities. Barrels...somebody figured out you burn more money in bullets and powder so just throw a $700-$1000 barrel in there too. Cost of playing the fast game, right?
Do what you want, and others will do what they want . Pretty simple.You will never meet a top level competitive benchrest or F-Class shooter that neck sizes brass. They only FL size because it is the only way to maintain consistency in ammo throughout all dimensions of the brass so the rifle operates properly and rounds stay consistent on target.
I use custom FL dies. If a person can afford them, they would be an absolute fool to not use dies that are custom matched to their chamber specs.
What are these magic floating presses you know about that are required to properly FL size??? Can’t wait to hear this secret...
I’ll put my old RCBS RockChucker press up against any new press at any price point and I guarantee my brass will come out just as straight, just as consistent headspacing, and with just as little runout as the most expensive presses money can buy. And I’d bet money on that.
Do what the winners do. The guys winning competitions FL size with custom dies. And there are very good reasons for FL sizing that have been proven countless times on paper at all distances. Doesn’t matter what anyone did in the past, if neck sizing was still considered better, then that’s what the comp shooters would be doing today. Complain and argue all you want about how neck sizing is better and you’ll just be wasting your time because no serious shooter will be listening.
Alright, you've thrown the shade. Now back it up with some facts. Reasons why it isn't so important.“Concentricity IS one of the top two concerns when reloading for competition”
Really? Think I would catalog that statement as opinion rather than fact.
I like what you've said here. We can get AS SMALL of groups while still giving chamber clearance. But, are we going to better our performance? I say this as a 100 yd. BR shooter clear on out to a mile. IT ALL MATTERS. What you masters do at 100 is what we base our ability on at 1 mi. Any reason, sound proof, helps.Neck only sizing is an old method that most-- if not all--serious competition shooters have moved on from. Everyone I shoot with and know in LR BR bumps the shoulder.
The arguments we have are: do we bump shoulders .002" or .003"? Should we small base every time? Should neck clearance be .003" or .004"?
The thought of one LR BR competitor and recent National Champion is that a .003" bump acts as sort of a damper as the case stretches under firing. He thinks brass so sized is this more forgiving of variances in the other components. He has the results to make his idea worthy of consideration.
Another competitor I know that does very well and develops a lot of accuracy enhancing tools thinks that anything over .002" is too much and sort of re-fireforms the brass each time it is shot.
I and others have personally seen how small base sized brass shoots as well as brass sized in our modestly priced custom sized dies. Such to the point that if all I had was an off the shelf Redding bushing die and a small base die for a .308 I would be at no disadvantage. It just takes longer with two sizing steps vs the one in my very small diameter FL customer dies.
The one thing virtually all LR BR shooters agree on is that a case that is too tight and causes sticky bolt lift messes up tracking. Messing up tracking, especially during 10-shot strings, can put you out of the micro-condition and open your groups well beyond your tuning.
LR BR shooters make no compromises when it comes to the ultimate in accuracy at longer ranges. Yet over the years we have actually increased case to chamber clearance as our groups aggs continue to get smaller.
Small correction, Walt Berger IS a benchrest shooter.@sandwarrior
It’s not just 100 yard BR shooters that FL size. Every 1,000 yard BR shooter and 1,000 yard F-Class shooter out there FL sizes as well. There’s even a 2,000 yard competition that started up here in Montana. Again everyone FL sizes and some guys are shooting 5 shot groups under 14” at 2K. Some of those guys shoot tens of thousands of rounds and go thru burning out multiple barrels each year in testing for upcoming competition seasons. Believe me, they’ve tested everything you’ve ever heard anywhere on the internet or in any magazine. What you don’t know is that they also test a ton of things you have NEVER heard of yet because they keep some of their cards hidden for an edge on the competition. But one of the things they all agree on and have in common is that brass should always be FL sized.
These are the same guys out there designing all the cutting edge technology in today’s modern custom actions, all of today’s most accurate bullets (Walt Berger was a BR shooter), and many of the cartridges and wildcats you know today were first invented and tested by benchrest and F-class competition shooters long before they became public knowledge.
Do you think Hornady was the first one to come up with the various PRC designs based on the 375 Ruger case? Do you think Nosler was the first to try their various cartridges based on the Ultra Mag case? No way. Guys had been wildcatting those cases for many years long before Hornady and Nosler commercialized them under the facade that they were their own design.
Oops. Post editedSmall correction, Walt Berger IS a benchrest shooter.
You know it's funny, you don't know either myself, Scott Harris, Boyd Allen or Ledd Slinger, however, we are, according to you, "miserable know it alls"... I guess that would make you a "delightful know-nothing"?It's funny , I neck size at times ...and I win matches . Glad I don't listen to the miserable know-it-alls I might struggle like them .
What's real funny is you took it personal . I wonder why ? I mentioned no names .You know it's funny, you don't know either myself, Scott Harris, Boyd Allen of Ledd Slinger, however, we are, according to you, "miserable know it alls"... I guess that would make you a "delightful know-nothing"?