Neck diameter confusion

[BeefyT11]

Hope you hit it exact and thats the right tension you need and hope you never have to get different brass.

Thank you for showing me the biggest flaw in this haha

 

[BeefyT11]

Which brings us to another question, what brand of brass are you using to get these dimensions. Yes, calipers are good for ballpark numbers, not so good for anything requiring precision.

80% neck turned lapua

 

[hogpatrol]

OK, according to Forster, you're fine on the honing. Along what with Dusty posted, the bushing dies give you flexibility n the event of using different brass or even another lot of the same brand. My best advice is to get a good set of micrometers. Turning necks without that instrument is a crap shoot.

 

[BeefyT11]

OK, according to Forster, you're fine on the honing. Along what with Dusty posted, the bushing dies give you flexibility n the event of using different brass or even another lot of the same brand. My best advice is to get a good set of micrometers. Turning necks without that instrument is a crap shoot.

I appreciate the advice, what would be your recommendation? Thanks

 

[243winxb]

loaded round outside neck diameter is .291,

open up the neck to .288"

I would have the neck honed out to the .288"

The neck turning give you control, so that the neck sizing can be adjusted if needed. Remove more or less when turning.

May not even need an expander.

 

[hogpatrol]

I appreciate the advice, what would be your recommendation? Thanks

Mikes? Check ebay for new & used and Amazon. Mitutoyo, Brown & Sharpe, Starrett or one of the knockoffs in digital.

 

[AJC]

I picked up a nice sterrit tube mic for 50 bucks and I had a regular mic already. Digital is convenient but you will pay a lot more and it will not be more accurate. Having a total plan for how your brass will meet your needs helps a lot. If your using pin guage expanders the bushing adds no certain value other than not sizing the entire neck. The Mandels will also give you the same amount of control just the opposite way. My best advice would be follow your mentors lead so when you have a problem they will know how to help. I dont want partially sized necks, so I'm using the dies and mandrel. Choose a path and go through the process. Learn and then reevaluate. There are many Paths to success.

 

[dcali]

This is why they make bushing dies. Get one and remove the expander. Size in two steps if you have to.

You’ve done beyond the intent of the cheap dies, which is to make serviceable anmo for the mass market. Once you start caring about this level of precision you need either bushing dies or a die cut to your specs. The bushings are going to be a lot cheaper in the long run, and an unmodified bushing die is going to have more resale value than a modified or custom die. Brass changes - you may find that after a few firings the springback is more than it was and you need to drop a thou. Or you might get a new lot that’s a tad thicker or thinner. With bushings you can correct for these issues.

 

[JFrank]

Yes, loaded round outside neck diameter is .291, after annealing and sizing outside neck diameter is .283

Sounds like a F/L Bushing type Die with a .289 bushing would be a great place to start.

Question- If the necks are being undersized.008 how much are the bodies being undersized?

A few companies make Dies that do not incorporate an expander ball rather a de capping stem, they also minimize the body sizing. Harrell’s,Widden, and Wilson come to mind.

There maybe others.

 

[BeefyT11]

To everyone suggesting bushing dies... are the standard steel bushings serviceable? Or are the coated, carbide etc... worth the extra money?

 

[dcali]

To everyone suggesting bushing dies... are the standard steel bushings serviceable? Or are the coated, carbide etc... worth the extra money?

I’ve never had any issue with the uncoated ones.

 

[hogpatrol]

To everyone suggesting bushing dies... are the standard steel bushings serviceable? Or are the coated, carbide etc... worth the extra money?

There's no need for any of them to be serviceable. Mike a loaded round and buy two bushings, a one thousandth and a two thousandth under that dimension. Steel or coated.

 

[243winxb]

are the standard steel bushings serviceable? Or are the coated, carbide etc... worth the extra money?

I use coated. The OD of the case necks need lubed for both bushing. Not a must do, but suggested by Redding.

 

[Uncle Ed]

With as much as you are reducing the neck diameter you will have less neck runout with the honed Forster full length die.

You will have the most neck runout with a neck sizing only bushing die. This is because the case body is not fully supported and will allow more neck movement when sizing.

FL Bushing Dies vs. Honed FL Dies
https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/fl-bushing-dies-vs-honed-fl-dies/

 

[BeefyT11]

With as much as you are reducing the neck diameter you will have less neck runout with the honed Forster full length die.

FL Bushing Dies vs. Honed FL Dies
https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/fl-bushing-dies-vs-honed-fl-dies/

That's where I got the original information, and chose the direction I am going... the unwavering support for bushing dies was too much to ignore though, so I thought I would listen to that side some as well. I'm a creature that craves to constantly learn, a curse of sorts Haha, but yes minimizing runout and not overworking brass was my ultimate goal through all of this.

 

[Uncle Ed]

That's where I got the original information, and chose the direction I am going... the unwavering support for bushing dies was too much to ignore though, so I thought I would listen to that side some as well. I'm a creature that craves to constantly learn, a curse of sorts Haha, but yes minimizing runout and not overworking brass was my ultimate goal through all of this.

Check neck runout after using both type full length and bushing dies and see what you get. Bushing dies work best in custom tight neck chambers with neck turned brass. Take any full length die and remove the expander and size a case, and the case will be as concentric as it ever will be. It is off center expanders and bushing that can move side to side and even tilt that will cause neck runout.

The Redding bushing FAQ tells you if you reduce the neck diameter .004 or more you can induce neck runout. They tell you to reduce the necks in two or more steps to reduce the amount of neck runout.

The 6.5 Guys video explains this and the Forster honed dies produced less neck runout and the most concentric cases.

You have no control on how much the neck expands when fired unless you have a custom chamber. Meaning with a factory chamber 95% of working the case neck brass is reducing its fired diameter. And even Forster told you to reduce the neck .004 more with the honed die and use the expander with unturned necks.

You need to learn to segregate the advice given here by the competitive shooters with custom chambers and what works in real life with larger factory chambers.

 

[grovey]

I'm in the same boat with a 6.5 CM , as well as a .223 die. If I ever get around to it my plan was to have it honed to the point that without the expander I'll net .003 "tension" , and with it .002, and lastly with the available oversize expander ball .001 hold. That should cover my needs for playing with neck tension.

My problem is I'm a serial procrastinator , and my head hurts when I try to do the math x deciding on which brass to choose, and if I should clean the necks up before taking the measurements.... and times running out.